Schools that allow Freshman to Audition

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>BrownEyes, </p>

<p>The division of who does and does not get cast is one of the great issues - at least for students. I’ve taught for a number of years in a variety of programs and as Chair, I have more students complain about who does, and who does not get cast than all other issues combined. Whether or not freshman are allowed to audition only alleviates the “I can’t believe they cast a freshman” syndrome. </p>

<p>BTW. We do allow freshman to be cast. The classroom failure rate is higher for students who are cast and those who are not (in the programs I have taught). Unlike sports, we do not have the success infrastructure in place to guide students through the full time job of being a student and the 20 hours per week of rehearsal and show related study.</p>

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<p>kjgc: You are from Coastal Carolina University, right? If so, I’ve heard nothing but great things about your program, and I always enjoy reading your posts on this forum … still, I can’t tell from your last post whether you agree with me or not on the issue of student casting (not that it matters, I was just curious … )</p>

<p>Anyway, from my perspective as a parent, it seems that there is always too much focus on casting, whether on the part of the students, their parents and/or the program faculty. I’m a firm believer that Acting and MT students can and do learn just as much by watching a rehearsal, tech’g a show, serving as a ‘dresser’ backstage, etc., etc. - - all are important components of every production and each non-performing role has the potential to teach the student something important about performing, whether as an actor, a singer or both … </p>

<p>My own child greatly favored those schools and programs that focused less on casting students in public productions, and more on classroom learning and performance training through non-public or lab productions. My child explained that in a lab production, students tend to be comfortable making bold choices, taking risks, applying different techniques they have learned and yes, learning from their mistakes, without also worrying about appeasing a paying audience and/or playing to theater critics. </p>

<p>Of course, my child is pursuing an Acting degree, rather than MT. </p>

<p>Anyway, I hope this discussion helps AlexaMT and other students like her who are gathering information in preparation for the 2010 audition cycle … I honestly can’t believe it’s already starting again! Seems like yesterday my own child was at the ‘information gathering’ stage …</p>

43

<p>Back to AlwaysAMom: I think there’s a major difference between the scenario where a college student auditions for a professional production (maybe during a break in the school year, etc.), and is fortunate enough to be cast, and then seeks permission from his school or program to take a leave of absence versus the scenario where the school actually uses its big city location + the opportunity to audition for B’dway, off-broadway and touring productions as a selling point.</p>

<p>For example, I know of a girl who was 6 credits away from completing her BFA MT degree at NYU Tisch, when she was offered a lead role in an equity tour. The casting director apparently heard this girl sing at Tisch and offered her the opportunity to audition. I believe the casting director may have been sitting in on an MT class at the time.</p>

<p>Anyway, it’s my understanding (from members of the girl’s family whom I happen to know), that NYU Tisch was not happy with the thought of this girl taking a temporary leave of absence to go on this equity tour, even though she had been offered a major role with a hint of eventually going on to play the role on B’way, which is what actually happened. </p>

<p>From what I was told, NYU Tisch eventually granted permission for the leave of absence, albeit reluctantly. And I believe that the girl did eventually complete her degree requirements and graduate from NYU Tisch, once she returned to New York.</p>

<p>But the point is that Tisch was not happy about disrupting the learning process for any reason. That, to me, sounds like a quality program.</p>

<p>Contrast that with other programs which, during parent info sessions, make a big deal of their NYC location, and the ease with which students can miss class to audition for B’dway, off-B’dway and touring productions. What I gathered from those info sessions was the fact that there was little concern over disrupting the learning process. Students apparently could ‘drop in’ or ‘drop out’ (i.e., take a leave of absence) at any time - - no problem.</p>

<p>That latter scenario is what raised a question in my mind, and more importantly, in my child’s mind, regarding how there could be continuity and a learning progression in a program that actually encouraged students to audition while they’re still in school.</p>

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<p>Colleges that allow freshmen to audition Y/N:</p>

<p>Baldwin Wallace: Y
BoCo: Y
CCM: Y
Chapman: Y
CMU: N
Elon: Y
Emerson: N *)
FSU: Y
Illinois Wesleyan: N
IU: Y
Ithaca: Y *)
JMU: Y
NYU: N
Northern Kentucky: Y
OCU: Y
Ohio Northern: Y
Pace: Y
Point Park: N
PSU: Y
Syracuse: N *)
UArts: Y
UCIrvine: Y
UMich: N/Y (from second semester onward)
Webster: N
Wright State: Y</p>

<p>*) to be confirmed by parents or students currently involved with the program.</p>

45

<p>browneyes, my D is a Tisch grad so I know that they do not encourage kids to audition outside of school. Neither do they prohibit it, though, and we know lots of kids who have done so, been cast, and have taken a leave. It really is not that difficult to be granted a leave of absence. I agree with you that Tisch is a quality program, but lots of Tischies have managed to do the leave-of-absence-for-a-show thing. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>I actually have never heard of a program “which, during parent info sessions, make a big deal of their NYC location, and the ease with which students can miss class to audition for B’dway, off-B’dway and touring productions”. At what schools did you experience this?
I agree that it’s difficult/near impossible to be missing studio classes at Tisch to audition outside. Absences are taboo, for any reason, not just auditions. Lots of kids manage to fit in auditions on their two ‘academic’ days, though, or even occasionally on Saturdays. As you mentioned with the girl you know, students are often ‘called in’ after someone has seen them perform at Tisch, or if a Tisch teacher refers them. I know of this happening many times to kids we know. All but a couple of the Tischies we know who have taken a leave, have returned and finished. Kids at other programs have been a mix of returning, not returning, and even one who was granted her degree without finishing her last semester, gaining ‘credit’, as it were, from her tour experience.</p>

<p>It’s not an ideal situation to leave for a show, and, although we never set parameters for our D, she chose not to audition outside during her four years. She’s kind of a unique case in some ways, though, in terms of what her goals were and how she was planning for her after grad career. Too much to go into here but a leave of absence wouldn’t have worked well for her plan. :slight_smile: Each kid is different.</p>

46

<p>Otterbein is a Yes.</p>

47

<p>Just confirming that Syracuse is a No. Freshmen are required to work tech on at least one show. My D is now a senior in the MT program; she initially didn’t like the “no performing” policy, but in retrospect agrees that the reasons for it are valid – most freshmen will not yet be competitive with older students who have had more training; eliminates competitiveness and allows friendships to develop; gives students time to adjust to college life. She has no regrets.</p>

48

<p>At NYU Steinhardt, all freshman are required to audition in the spring semester. They are not allowed to in their first semester.</p>

49

<p>Just to add to the info on UArts, in September freshmen may audition for openings in the fall shows that developed over the summer and for student productions. It is permissive and 1st semester freshman do not get cast. A lot of freshmen do it, however, just for the experience. In late November - early December, freshmen are required to audition for the spring shows but it is a rarity for freshmen to get cast (I don’t recall it happening during my daughter’s 1st 2 years). Finally, in late April - early May freshmen must audition for the next year’s fall shows and there is a decent chance of getting cast but at that point as a rising sophomore. The 1st 4 semesters, freshmen and sophomores must serve as crew on 1 main stage show which can make for a very intense semester if the student is also cast.</p>

50

<p>I don’t have anything MT-school-specific to add, but I concur with what has previously been said about the reasoning behind many programs not allowing freshmen to audition for shows. </p>

<p>As to schools with open casting who do allow freshmen to audition, I’d like to point out that it can be a double edged sword. I attended such a program - acting, not MT - first term freshman year. This may not be the case everywhere, but I found that those who were cast as freshmen tended to be repeatedly cast throughout their four years while those who weren’t were sometimes more or less left to wither on the vine. At that particular school, this didn’t seem to have as much to do with actual talent as it did with the different actors’ ability to ‘play older’ which, as anyone should know, has ZERO value in the real world. There was also across-the-board typecasting even in that. Some of the upperclassmen said they could easily narrow it down to a few people who would get each major role as soon as the shows were announced with the only wildcard being a freshman sneaking into the mix. I snuck into the mix (I’m tall and waspy looking) and, needless to say, sensed a lot of resentment and jealousy and heard a lot of talk about ‘politics.’ </p>

<p>Here’s an almost four year old blog post from a then senior at that school that I saved for posterity in a private entry on my own blog (along with a really catty remark she made to me) from right around the time I made my decision to leave … </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>She wasn’t just venting. She was short. From having kept up with a few people on Facebook and seeing some production pics, I can say that things haven’t changed - especially for girls - at that particular school. You’ll stand a good chance of being cast repeatedly in a variety of roles if you’re over 5’7" and have a low pitched voice. It’s slim pickins, otherwise, and what you do manage to get will usually be teenagers or children and you can forget about it if you’re anything resembling ‘ethnic’ or ‘exotic.’ It’s not about talent. Everybody there has that. </p>

<p>I’m not saying it’s like that everywhere, but do make sure you keep both eyes open, ask the right questions, and use your critical judgement when considering one of those schools.</p>

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<p>There is truth in what you say fishbowlfreshman. Type has advantages in the narrow world of academic theatre. Then again, type has advantages in the not so narrow world of non-academic theatre. I read the blog, and have been the Chair in that “not so pretty” office. I don’t have emperical evidence, but woman of a certain height and weight ratio are cast more than others. I will assume the same is true for men.</p>

<p>I would like to quibble with something you said, though. You say “It’s not about talent. Everybody has that.” I do not know what school you are writing about, nor do I want to know. But even the very best programs make mistakes in the audition process and even if the young lady did have talent, it may have just happened that others fit the role better. Finally, in academic theatre, and in non-academic theatre, there are more factors to casting than talent and type. In each situation you bring with you your work ethic, character and past - in short, your reputation. In academic situations this includes your time in the classroom and studio prior to the auditions.</p>

<p>One of the best things about a BFA program is that many (most) keep the classes small, and give each student at least some stage time in a significant role. And while my philosophy rests firmly in the “you have to do theatre to learn to do theatre” camp, you are paying for the training and the majority of that happens in the classroom and the studio. </p>

<p>It is a great egalitarian wish of mine that all students would be cast equally. However, academic theatre is a stepping stone to the professional world and the best programs attempt to create an environment that is at once safe and mimics the competitiveness of the professional world. No easy task, nor is it fair in any way.</p>

<p>Finally, academics, casting agents, directors, etc. are often wrong about talent evaluation. The acting world is littered with stories of actors who were dropped from this program or told they couldn’t act only to go on to long and illustrious careers. Casting is one of the trickiest aspects of academic theatre - balancing the good of the show, the good of the program, and the good of the students all at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive, but depending on which is given emphasis the cast can change significantly.</p>

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<p>A couple of unrelated points:</p>

<p>1) On the question of whether freshman can audition - as stated before, many schools do not allow freshmen to audition for main stage productions. However, freshmen may be able to audition for student directed or other types of productions on campus. This is a bit of a complicated question, so when doing your research, be precise in your inquiries or you might get a misleading answer.
2) On the question of students who NEVER get cast while in college. Hard to believe, but this does happen. I know nearly nothing about this topic (so take that in consideration as you read this!), but in talking with various schools, some were more open than others about this issue. One school was very straightforward and said, “YES, there are students in the acting program that went all four years and were never cast. Because we cast like the real world.” Again, hard to believe that this could be a reasonable way to run a professional training program. But, like “cut programs”, my feeling is that as long as schools are up front about their policy and practice, students can go in with eyes wide open. Other schools danced around the issue, but their real practice would come out in threads like this. I frankly discouraged my daughter from going to the school where they confirmed that students could go all four years without getting cast in a production. I also believe that an important part of learning is doing.</p>

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<p>CCPA freshman are not in the casting pool for the first year. But there are 2 shows specifically put aside for them. In the fall MTs and actors put on a collective Freshman Showcase and in the spring they split up and the MTs do a showcase of the Great American Songbook and actors do a performance project (last year, it was “Columbinus”) </p>

<p>Just FYI</p>

54

<p>Kent State Univ,BFA program in Ohio allows freshman to be cast. I believe it is a requirement that all students audition for shows. They present a mainstage musical and straight play each semester. Freshman are able to be cast in either of these. They also have student run productions throughout the year.</p>

55

<p>kjgc,
Ironically, that school’s two most well-known alumni are short women! LOL However, neither were considered stand-outs during their time there … I agree that mistakes are made everywhere, but that department draws from a national pool and has students from every corner of the US. I’d estimate that around half are on full or half academic scholarships (the department jacks up the overall school’s rating that way) and many of those chose to go there over more well-known programs - both Acting and MT - because of that. It’s definitely a very bright group of kids although, on average, probably not quite on level with what are generally considered the ‘top’ BFAs talentwise. There’s no shortage of talent, but there are a shortage of roles and it only makes sense that there would be more to go around if freshies were excluded from the mix.</p>

<p>I understand about the faculty at this type of program needing to strike a balance between what’s good for the show, good for the school, and good for the students. However, I think in some cases the good of the students takes a backseat. At some point, it seems that you have to ask yourself what you’re doing. Are you in the business of putting on pretty shows or are you training actors? I agree that those factors need not be mutually exclusive, but it seems to me that one should err on the side of the latter in an academic environment. Again, looking over the school’s cast photos from the past two years, the same fifteen or so people appear again and again in major roles with others only appearing intermittently if at all while there are generally around sixty actors in that program at any given time.</p>

<p>As to how the ‘best’ programs do things, most of the ‘top’ acting programs operate on a group/studio/company model where one works almost exclusively with students in one’s own class and the productions are considered an extension of the classroom work. Roles are assigned based on what the faculty thinks each student needs to work on and a student will often even be assigned more than one role in a show. That approach can have problems of its own, but the problem being discussed here doesn’t exist. I don’t know if any MT programs do it that way or not …</p>

56

<p>fishbowlfreshman,
No disagreements. Each program makes choices as to how to advance students and those choices are very difficult. Again, the egalitarian in me wants to see each student given the exact same opportunities. The elitist in me says this is simply not possible. As a Chair, I have wrestled with this problem for as long as I’ve been in academia. </p>

<p>Our program, up to this year, had been an open admission program. The stark reality is, not every student had ability. Our answer was to move from the egalitarian world of open admission, to the elitist world of the BFA program. With control of the size of the incoming classes, seasons can be more geared towards the group/studio/company that is part of that class.</p>

<p>I am saddened that we have lost the majority of students who may blossom outside of a poor high school program or simply later, in favor of students who have put an emphasis on theatrical training by the time they are 17. The trade-off has kept me up at night, but in the end it is the only way I see to give each student the opportunities they need as part of their training. </p>

<p>One last point. You ask if “you are in the business of putting on pretty shows or training actors?” I cannot and will not speak for any other program. Our directors revel in body type differences and actively look for those differences in their casts and in our incoming classes. The question at hand is “are we in the business of putting the best production on stage or training actors?” Put that way, the question becomes different. Still no easy answer, still not mutually exclusive, but certainly different.</p>

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<p>The one thing I noticed after reading this thread is that we should do to a better job of distinguishing the differences between BFA MT and a BA or BFA Acting (if there is one). I am having a hard time following everyone’s point of view. Good points all around.</p>

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<p>There are BFA’s in Acting, as well as Musical Theatre, Design, Theatre Technology, Management, and several others I’m probably not aware of.</p>

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<p>I think when folks were listing which schools allow freshmen to be in college productions freshmen year or not, they were referring to the BFA in MT programs only at these particular schools since this is the MT Forum. For some schools, the policy is the same for their BFA in Acting program as well if they have such a program. Still, I believe the listing now is referring to BFA in MT programs at these particular colleges being listed.</p>

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<p>To be specific, at Otterbein the BFA MT’s and BFA Acting majors are eligible and required to audition for all productions, except usually the first quarter in freshman year as most casting is done the previous spring. In fact, many freshman have been cast throughout their freshman year, in various productions, MT’s in musicals and straight shows also as well as Acting students in straight shows and musicals (I believe.) I’m not so sure about the requirement issue for BA students, but do believe they are eligible to audition and some have been cast as freshmen. Hopefully, someone will correct me if I’m wrong.</p>