<p>Penn
<a href="http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/applying/profile.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/applying/profile.php</a></p>
<p>It 's clear to me if you are not 1 or 2 in your class, your chances diminish quickly at these schools. </p>
<p>Other schools that do a good job?</p>
<p>That's interesting dstark. I see they have the figures for schools that don't rank, but I wonder what the actual effect is on the applicant when they look at his/her application.</p>
<p>My guess is the boarding school kids, the top private high school students and athletes make up most of the no rank.</p>
<p>at least for Brown, this is the wrong way to look at it. Brown is much more concerned with individual talent or brilliance than with rank --and I think we can all agree that being #1 doesn't necessarily equate (or even frequently equate) with being most brilliant or creative or talented as much as it does with having done a certain amount and type of work. It may not be the type of work that will get you into Brown --those students who had these qualifications also had other qualificatins, and it is the OTHER qualifications that counted most in their acceptance. Someone who is #10 or 20 but comes with other qualifications may have a better chance than you think.</p>
<p>The numbers don't lie. 1 or 2 is best.</p>
<p>It is not the way they do it, and it is an inaccurate way of viewing the kids who are there. They just HAPPEN to be #1 or 2, and the drive that made them 1 or 2 also lead many to other extraordinary achievement. They were not selected only or even mostly because they were 1 or 2 --and it is not the most important thing in admissions at Brown, which is why so many top kids are rejected.</p>
<p>These numbers show the higher you are in your class, the better your chance of admission. </p>
<p>Cloverdale7, you are trying to give reasons why this is so. However, you have no evidence that the most accomplished students are also the most accomplished in other things.</p>
<p>I am sure it doesn't hurt to be 1 or 2 --my point is that while a percent of the class is 1 or 2, most 1 or 2 students are rejected. On the other hand, virtually all non-hooked acceptees are distinguished in that other category of special creativity, talent or unique academic ability. THAT is the special factor that determines admissions, THAT is the tipping point, not being 1 or 2. To tell a student who is #10 but actually accomplished in a unique or creative way to forget it is ...misleading. Yes all things being equal it IS better to be #1 --but it still is not the most important thing. I am saying that your emphasis is wrong. This is my opinion given my personal experience with Brown.</p>
<p>I'm not saying you will get in if you number 1. The odds are you still won't.</p>
<p>I am also not saying don't apply if you are #10. Apply. You have a chance. If Brown accepts 10%, of the people who are number 10, and I am number 10, I would like to know that.</p>
<p>I am emphasizing numbers because Brown put out the numbers.</p>
<p>Brown put out the numbers, but the numbers do not capture the gestalt of the process. The numbers as put out appear reductionist but the process is holistic. Still, all things being equal of course, it can't hurt to be the val. There you are right --I am just trying to put it in context.</p>
<p>I find it very interesting that Brown accepts the #1 student at about half the rate that Penn does. It's also interesting that both schools report that somewhat more than half of the applicants come from schools that don't rank.</p>
<p>In looking at the MIT profile (very limited by comparison), 39% were validictorians and 90% were in the top 5%. <a href="http://alum.mit.edu/ne/noteworthy/news-features/class2009-yield.html%5B/url%5D">http://alum.mit.edu/ne/noteworthy/news-features/class2009-yield.html</a></p>
<p>I'd have to say that I found Harvard's profile very uninformative:
<a href="http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/counselors/stats/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/counselors/stats/index.html</a></p>
<p>Dmd77, thanks for the links. That's what I am looking for. :)</p>
<p>I posted this earlier ... Rice does a good job of detailing their entering class. </p>
<p>Class Rank
Ranked #1 Applied 683 Admitted 309 (45%) Enrolled 94
Ranked #2 Applied 239 Admitted 102 (43%) Enrolled 28
Top 5% Applied 2,494 Admitted 896 (36%) Enrolled 339
Top 6-10% Applied 665 Admitted 90 (14%) Enrolled 44
Top 11-20% Applied 568 Admitted 55 (10%) Enrolled 36
Top 21-30% Applied 223 Admitted 16 (7%) Enrolled 12
Top 31-40% Applied 101 Admitted 5 (5%) Enrolled 5
Top 41-50% Applied 49 Admitted 7 (14%) Enrolled 7
<50% Applied 62 Admitted 4 (6%) Enrolled 4
Unranked Applied 3,948 Admitted 733 (18%) Enrolled 280 </p>
<p>I believe that the above information is a lot more useful than the typical "xx% of applicants are in top 10%" we see on most sites. If we had more data points, we could determine if rank does indeed carry much importance. Having the same distribution for SAT scores and GPA's would also help us define the focus of the school on tests scores. </p>
<p>Now, let's look at the Decision Plans:</p>
<p>Early Decision:
Number of early decision applicants 559
Number accepted 168* (30%)
Number enrolled 161 (96%) </p>
<p>Interim Decision:
Number of interim decision applicants 3,349
Number accepted 938** (28%)
Number enrolled 327 (35%) </p>
<p>Regular Decision:
Number of regular decision applicants 4,202
Number accepted 616*** (15%)
Number enrolled 210 (34%)
*Eight (8) were deferred and admitted under a later decision plan.</p>
<p>Here, again, the distribution between ED and ID is revealing. The percentage of ID is almost identical to the ED. Since ID is a lot less restrictive, an applicant may wisely play the ID card.</p>
<p>Quote: "I find it very interesting that Brown accepts the #1 student at about half the rate that Penn does." </p>
<p>This fits the impression I have had as a result of our school's history with these schools: Penn seems to have accepted many of the very top academic kids, even when their ec's seemed relatively ordinary. Brown, on the other hand, only seemed to accept a val or sal with unusual ec's, special creativity, very strong leadership, and the like. And Brown has also accepted applicants from our school who were ranked slightly lower, but really had exceptional talents in other areas.</p>
<p>Another thing to remember in thinking about those two schools: Brown's overall acceptance rate is about 5 percentage pts. lower than Penn's.</p>
<p>Two surprises for me from the Penn data:</p>
<ol>
<li> Out of 18,824 total applicants, 11,567 applicants attended a secondary school that did not provide rank in class.<br></li>
</ol>
<p>Doesn't that seem like a lot of schools (applicants) ? That is 61% of applicants from schools that don't provide class rank!</p>
<p>Our HS did away with class rank a few years ago, but does give decile info. </p>
<p>We had 2 (that I know of) accepted to Penn ED this year. </p>
<ol>
<li> Out of 3,916 admitted students, only 2057 schools are represented! So multiple admits from a school are the rule. </li>
</ol>
<p>and, I know I said 2, but number 3, I was a bit disappointed to see that only 52%, barely half of enrolled students came from public schools.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amherst.edu/admission/process/ssr08.pdf">Amherst</a> has good information on SAT distributions; not so much on class rank. (Data for Class of 2008).</p>
<p>Also <a href="http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/counselors/facts/">Northwestern</a> is good on both (Class of 2009 data).</p>
<p>unfortunately, for most schools, the best you get is the common data set info (and for many schools you can't even readily get that) - and cds just tells you about the make-up of those attending, how those attending compare to the overall applicant pool.</p>