<p>I guess this is the thread where I can get the most information on this, since so many of you guys claim to do research.</p>
<p>I have read the science research projects that were awarded in Siemens competition and Intel competition and they were all AMAZING. Kids wrote about molecular biology stuff that you would only investigate in college, and even the material they used left me awestruck.
Where do they get all that material from? Who would let them conduct independent research in their labs?</p>
<p>I have a hard time that what they did were original research projects (knowledge expanding research), since they are still in high school.
Does anyone know if they are actually doing innovative research, or they are basically addressing other research projects already completed in an innovative way?</p>
<p>I'm completely clueless on this, so any information on those science competitions are more than welcome.
Thanks.</p>
<p>ha ha! I know what you are talking about! Well, strong faculty and department really provide a concrete background.....they provide the facilities most of the times and stuffs. </p>
<p>No, I'm sure nothing is paraphrased. (except the Lit. Review of course! lol!) </p>
<p>After I completed my summer research on Ecology I was awestruck too! I couldn't believe how I did such a gr8 stuff.
It's just about taking time and doing it thoroughly....amazingly everything fits in when u get some guidance and I guess that's pretty much it! </p>
<p>And then again, Siemens got the most talented HS researches in the US, so in taht case, they must inevitably be AMAZING!</p>
<p>"Well, strong faculty and department really provide a concrete background.....they provide the facilities most of the times and stuffs. "</p>
<p>Do you mean from the high school? My HS doesn't have much facilities.<br>
I'm also interested in participating into those competitions but I don't really where to start from (doing a research project on RNAi or immunology would be ideal for me, but how do I get all the material and guidance to start it) Would you advise getting acquainted to a university professor to start a research project? (easier said than done...)</p>
<p>Abt ur last question.......if u can do that..........that'd be SO AWESOME! If u live in a big city w/ universities and stuffs, actually it MIGHT not be THAT HARD EITHER! U can also check w/ the local CC's if u live in an urban place. </p>
<p>yeah, most HS DON'T sponsor such things. Either lack of resources or lack of interests. But u can definitely talk w/ the head of the Science Dept at ur HS! S/he should be able to give u a lot of opportunities. There must be some way it can be worked out! :)</p>
<p>Most likely the HS kids were fortunate enough to join a lab that gave them their own project (within the context of the overall aim of the lab of course) and the kids were fortunate enough to get some results and submitted those results for competition.</p>
<p>My point being, most likely they didn't think of the research project, write a grant, and then conducted the research on their own. The PI probably designed the research, got the money, provided the enzymes, kits, whatever and the kid carried out his experiments.</p>
<p>Yeah, but do you think it is the same for the math projects? (do you think the PI also thought about the idea and then helped the HS prove a theorem?)</p>
<p>My father said that for the math demonstrations, they are very dubious because they are not published. He says that original work have to be published in a peer-reviewed journal, pass many layers of security for authenticity, be appraised by an expert in that math field. Besides, he said that good demonstrations are the ones that never fade with time, and that is shown 10 years later in a summary of the math advances during that decade.</p>
<p>well...when it comes down to research like you mentioned, it really matters on the environment in which you are. I know it is quite hard to get started on research as a HS if your HS does not promote it. Even if you are in a University town, most professors actually find it a burden to aid a HS in their research especially (genuine innovative research) because they rarely benefit from it. If I were you I would make an attempt to try something like that but most of the students in Siemens competition have insane hook-ups (like the 1st place researched with BV Algebra, he lives in Oregon and he worked with someone from MIT? That is just a resource that very few people have!)</p>
<p>and most Siemens winners are from renowned schools all over US...say like those Math/Science schools, etc. that have the experience and resources!</p>
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he lives in Oregon and he worked with someone from MIT
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That's because he went to RSI.
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and most Siemens winners are from renowned schools all over US...say like those Math/Science schools, etc. that have the experience and resources!
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Not true. The high school doesn't matter too much. As long as you have a university nearby, you should be able to find a mentor and do pretty well. Last time I checked, Viscardi was home schooled, Dmitry something goes to Oregon (what good schools are there?), and I doubt there are any high schools in Hawaii that can compare to Exeter/TJHSST (the 2nd place team winners from last year are from Hawaii).</p>
<p>Again YES it is possible to get research if you live in a university town...but doing something innovative is rare which is what he is asking, for that matter, asking someone to join their research and have your name published in their research is also pretty hard to do</p>
<p>remember getting some to "mentor" you is one thing, getting legit credit requires you to bring something to the table (which a high school student usually can't do) thats why some colleges do not let their underclassmen do research! What do they have to offer besides a high school edu. They want ppl that are strong in organic chem, microbiology and whatever you want to work on (immunology).</p>
<p>I speak from first hand experience, I am doing some unique research with my mom and her boss and I am bringing something to the table, and therefore I offer something and have a good change of gettin my name in the paper...BUT IT WAS HARD AS HELL TO SETUP, thats the point I want to get across.</p>
<p>I agree that it's hella hard to get real stuff done that's worthy of publication. I've spent 2 summers, 8 am to 5 pm every day, plus a little during the school year, and I've learned a lot and gotten some results, not to mention a good rec letter from the PI and a connection for life, but I won't get published which seems disappointing b/c I've put a lot of work into it and some kids talk about getting published in high school, and I think, what more could I have done...</p>
<p>So, I've come to the conclusion that it all depends on the PI, his work, and what project you get (come on, you're not going to propose a project that the PI hasn't thought of already). My lab is fairly new and projects are still forming, plus materials/big, expensive equipment is not always handy in new, not yet rich labs..</p>
<p>Here is what I would expect. You try to get a connection with a PI at the local university, for him to "mentor" you. You work like hell in his lab and learn a lot of brand new techniques and when to use them... Eventually, you will get to work on a project on your own if your PI is OK with it. With successful results, you can submit a paper to Intel or Siemens competitions.</p>
<p>In biology, however, I really suspect that the PI already formulated (hints) the hypothesis for you, and is almost sure that his hypothesis is valid but has no time to devote to the project, so he assigns it to you. Your work would then be to test his hypothesis using the techniques you learnt while working at his lab, and set up all the results & discussion of the results. He checks your work, and you submit it to Intel or whatever science competition.</p>
<p>Is that scenario right? If so, the hardest would actually be to be able to find connections with a PI so that he lets you work in his lab, wouldn't it?</p>
<p>You are pretty much right. Generally HSers are given projects that have been proven to work. This doesn't necessarily mean that we know the results already but generally the experimental pipeline that the high schooler will go through will be fairly routine. Other people in the lab may be given projects that are more "experimental." Right now, one of the post-bacs in my lab is doing something with western blots and cross-linking that the lab has NEVER done before. We're not sure if it's even possible and after trying for 3 weeks we might be giving up on it. That's the type of project that a HSer probably wouldn't get.</p>
<p>That said, just because something is easy for a postdoc doesn't mean it'll be easy for a high schooler. Last summer, my lab hired a high schooler and the entire summer she only made and assayed 4 RNAs. In roughly six weeks, I made and assayed roughly 12 RNA's (and even I've had lots and lots of failures along the way). When joining a new lab, the learning curve will be fairly steep as you figure out the nuances of your project.</p>
<p>MIT has an RSI program. (See the link below). I believe NIH in DC and some other schools on the west coast also have similar programs. The admission to these programs is highly competitive but if you get accepted, you can get really great mentors. Additional benefit is that the research you do at these institutions can be submitted to competitions.</p>
<p>If you are not able to avail of programs like RSI, apply to researchers at the nearest university by you. Most Public Health Research Institutes also accept HS students that are interested in research. I have seen some motivated HS students get their own projects, present in local competitions, and even publish their research.</p>
<p>I'm did a research science fair before and I'm doing Siemens' this year so I might be able to answer these questions.</p>
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Where do they get all that material from? Who would let them conduct independent research in their labs?
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</p>
<p>For me, most of the material comes directly from the local library. They have shelves upon shelves of information of quantum physics, biology, calculus, String theory, and on Watson and Crick, etc.</p>
<p>For the actual experiments, you can ask a faculty to borrow a lab or you can try them at home.</p>
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Does anyone know if they are actually doing innovative research, or they are basically addressing other research projects already completed in an innovative way?
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</p>
<p>It is innovative, in a sense. It's taking good information and changing it to adapt to a new use.</p>