Sciences at Vandy (A Resource)

Colleges and Universities A-Z Vanderbilt University
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<p>(So It's May. Finals are over, and summer research hasn't started.... sooo......I got bored haha. Hopefully this is helpful. More will be added later especially on the individual majors.)</p>

<p>Over the past few months I have tried to answer some of your question about sciences at Vanderbilt. Hopefully this thread can act as a preliminary resource to some of the incoming students as well as other curious undergrads. I will be a senior in the fall at Vandy and I have had some pretty strong experience across most of the departments. Below are some quick tips to a successful experience at Vanderbilt in the sciences. The advice I offer is based primarily on my experiences as well as those of my close friends. This will mainly cover biological sciences, math, pre-med topics, and research (the best right?). There are many great options at Vandy, and I am happy to discuss them here, however they aren’t asked about a lot. So if you have a question about Physics, Chem, or Neuro ask away! I should admit now I have a strong bias towards research and the Molecular Cellular Biology (MCB) major, so forgive me if this is overly biased. </p>

<p>Just to clear things up: I am not pre med (PhD!), however I spent a few semesters flirting with the idea. I feel confident enough to offer some advice based mainly on close friends experiences, and my own.</p>

<p>Most importantly: If you disagree with anything I have to say, please please please post about it. Nothing is better than getting an open dialogue going on these issues. I’m not 100% right on any of this (besides Math 155 :P ) and a conversation will only help.</p>

<p>If you have any more questions please post them here so everyone can benefit from the answers.<br>
Content
1) Useful links
2) FAQ
a. AP Credit
b. Premed
c. Research
d. Math
f. Misc</p>

<p>1) Here are some useful links and references to degree programs and courses
<a href="http://www.vanderbilt.edu/catalogs/undergrad/A&S.pdf#courses%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.vanderbilt.edu/catalogs/undergrad/A&S.pdf#courses&lt;/a>
Department</a> of Biological Sciences Undergraduate Information
Department</a> of Chemistry at Vanderbilt University
Neuroscience[/url</a>]
[url=<a href="http://www.vanderbilt.edu/physics/%5DDepartment">http://www.vanderbilt.edu/physics/]Department</a> of Physics and Astronomy<br>
Vanderbilt</a> Mathematics
Vanderbilt</a> University : Health Professions Advisory Office</p>

<p>2) FAQ
a) AP Credit
Will my AP credit….?
Ok so there are only a few spots where AP credit will really help you out.
1) CHEM AP – this will place you out of the gen chem. 102/104/106 track. If you take advantage of this, you can take CHEM 218 freshmen year. This is an all freshmen chem. class and is an excellent idea. Biggest downside is, it is usually at 8 am MWF. But hey, you just got to college you should still be used to waking up early right? …. Right. If you don’t take CHEM 218 freshmen year you will have to take CHEM 220 (same class different setting) in later years.
2) CALC AB /BC - This can get you fast tracked into high level math classes and I highly recommend taking full advantage of it. Do not make the mistake of thinking you are simply retaking a class and it will be an easy A. See the course catalog for details on where you can be placed depending on your score. Etc.
3) BIO AP – For science majors this is useless. You get credit for BSCI 100. For non science majors…. I guess it will count toward graduation hours? Still pretty useless.
4) Physics AP – This will fast track you into PHYS 121. This is still intro physics, but it is a great resource for future physics majors.<br>
5) PSYCH AP – if you are a future neuroscience major, this will take care of your intro the psych requirement.</p>

<p>Pre Med Advice
I’m pre-med. What major should I choose?
Though I am biased to MCB (molecular cellular biology), you should chose the major that you feel you will enjoy the most and the one that you will do the best in. Medical school admissions is VERY numbers driven, and a strong GPA is important. That being said, I feel that a driven student can achieve the same GPA regardless of the major assuming they have the same drive to work hard regardless of the field. A medical school will not look down on you for choosing chemistry over bsci, or math over physics etc. Keep in mind that research experience can play a big part in your admission as well. Pick a department that will lend you access to such research.</p>

<p>Which class should I take?
These questions come up often. Usually they are handled on a case by case basis, however I will list what I think a normal premed science core should look. This is geared towards those in the MCB, MHS, or similar majors. This doesn't really apply well for Physics majors. This will give you enough time to prepare for the MCAT, as well as space out some of the more difficult classes. If At all possible take CHEM 218 freshmen year instead of 102/104/106. You want to check with the HPAO and specific medical schools to see if they will accept AP credit for general chemistry (Typically yes). The goal is to spread out your core requirments as much as possible. Being intro classes, they are usually more difficult in grading, and you need a high GPA in these classes.</p>

<p>Freshmen: Calc 155A/B Chem 102AB (104,106)
Sophomore: Chem 220 AB BSCI 110AB (with labs)
Junior: Physics 116AB (with lab)</p>

<p>Should/how do I shadow a doctor?
Just like joining a lab, the most important thing to do is email email email email. Contact as many doctors as you can. The HPAO runs a great shadowing program where they match you with a doctor. This is not always successful. Some doctors will not contact the students, sometimes things don’t work out. I suggest using their program, however you will get better results if you get busy and start contacting people. I strongly suggest shadowing a physician before applying to medical school. Don’t wait till the end of your junior year, and also don’t expect several hours every week. One to two hours every two weeks is sufficient. I suggest you start contacting physicians at VUMC or Baptist Hospital (located nearby) no later than the beginning of your Junior year.</p>

<p>Should/how do I volunteer at a hospital?
Of course! How do you know you want to be a doctor if you don’t see it first hand? HPAO can link you up with VUMC, or you can contact Baptist Hospital to volunteer there. This shouldn’t be something you “check off the premed list.” You should take something away from this experience.</p>

<p>Do most students take an MCAT prep course?
Kaplan center and the Princeton review are located right across the street from campus. Many students take advantage of these resources.</p>

<p>** c) Research **
Can you tell me everything I need to know about research at vandy?
No. But I can get you started.
"If you are interested in joining a research lab you NEED to contact professors about a month or so into the semester BEFORE you want to join. I.e. You want to join a lab in fall of sophomore year, contact professors in February or March of your freshmen year. Bottom line is, if you want to do research you NEED to be active in contacting professors. Anyone who is active enough in contacting professors will have no problem getting in a lab. Doing your research on professors before contacting them will narrow down those who want you to do meaningful research, and those who want you to do data analysis.</p>

<p>When do most people start research?
Sophomore year mostly. Some start Junior year. Few lucky (or strange?) students get to start lab work freshmen year.</p>

<p>But I don’t know what I want in a lab! What do I want?
You are looking for very specific characteristics in your future lab:
1) Size of the lab. Some labs are so big that the students are lost as they are "farmed" to grad students. Other labs are so small that there isn't enough room for growth or guidance. Finding a size that fits your intellectual ability is important.
2) Don't worry about the topic. Clearly there is a difference between a structural biology lab and a lab focused on ecology, however when you are picking between two labs of a similar discipline the subject matter should NOT matter. What does matter is how much intellectual freedom you will have to work on the project, and how productive each lab is. You should find something that interests you, however this isn't terminal, this is training for either future grad work, or med school.
3) Comfort with PI (principle investigator). This will be the person you will be writing your primary LOR. You want to make sure you are comfortable with this person, and can work with them for the long haul.</p>

<p>Should/can I do research in the medical center?
Tricky situation, if you are not a BSCI major. I suggest you do research in the medical center. However, if you are a BSCI major, you will not be able to count this towards your degree. You are somewhat stuck in BSCI department. There is still plenty of opportunity in the medical center. If you want more info please ask. This topic could go on for pages if provoked :P. </p>

<p>Can I do research over the summer?
Yes! If you are interested in doing summer research, either at Vandy or elsewhere, you NEED to look for spots in January. Most deadlines are Feb 1. Talk to your Principle investigator (PI) about summer research at the beginning of the spring semester. There are two excellent summer programs at Vandy VUSRP and VSSA (linked below).
Vanderbilt</a> Undergraduate Summer Research Program (VUSRP)
<a href="https://medschool.mc.vanderbilt.edu/ssa/%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://medschool.mc.vanderbilt.edu/ssa/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>How can I make the most out of my research experience?
1) Know the expectations that your PI has for you. Time table, creativity, involvement etc.
2) Be actively engaged in the research and propose ideas out of the box.<br>
3) Get past the naiveties that will haunt your first semester and ask as many questions as possible. If you are afraid to ask a question, you are doomed. Do not be shy and do not fear asking a dumb question. It will save you in the long run.
4) Be intellectually involved in the research.</p>

<p>Can you suggest some labs in XYZ?
Sure. Post away and I'd be glad to offer any advice on research opportunities.</p>

<p>** Math**
Should I take Math 150 or math 155? What is the difference between the classes?
This is asked just about every year. Anyone who has ever went through the experience should answer a resounding MATH 155. The tests in Math 150 are standardized and graded in such a way that each test is a total crapshoot. The majority of students I talk to, myself included, feel that you have more control of your grade based on how hard you work in the 155 series. The largest difference between the classes is the pace. At the end of Math 155B you will finish Series, where as in the 150B class you finish polar coordinates (depending on the professor). At the end of year long sequence you cover about an extra half semester worth. Also in Math 150 there is a propensity to apply the techniques you learn to situational problem solving (ex. Work, force, power).</p>

<p>Should I take Math 140?
The only people who should be taking Math 140 are non science majors looking to fulfill AXLE credits. If you are premed do not even consider this class. Economics majors can take this class to fulfill their calculus prereq’s for ECON 150.</p>

<p>Misc.
I’m not a science major! But I need classes for AXLE what should I take?
Many will say to take Geiology, and this is a good option. However, I feel that Math 127 (or baby statistics) is very easy and a solid option for someone with a sound high school background in math. Another good option is BSCI 100/105 also known as baby bio. These classes are great for the student who needs credit for AXLE. BSCI 100 and 105 also count for a lab and fulfill the requirement. </p>

<p>Is it possible to be a biology major with a MHS minor or vice versa?
Yes on both accounts. You can not do research credit for both though. So a double major is very uncommon and most faculty aren't pleased with it. Major/minor combo is doable and common.</p>

<p>(more to come, though this might get you started).</p>

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<p>It is becoming more and more difficult for high school and college students to shadow physicians due to strict HIPPA regulations. Vanderbilt absolutely no longer permits any undergraduate students to be in the operating rooms under any circumstances for patient privacy, infection control and liability issues (student passes out and is injured, student touches sterile equipment causing infection control issues and additional costs to replace it or student accidentally damages expensive equipment.</p>

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<p>I think you may have a bit of tunnel vision promoting so many heavy science majors for premed. You can major in anything and still be extremely successful in med school. We have philosophy majors, education majors, many piano performance majors who are at the top of their class both in undergraduate and medical school.
I cannot overemphasize the importance of demonstrating the importance of having outside talents and interests whether it is arts, music or athletics. Medicine is a very stressful occupation and if you don’t have some good support systems in place,stress coping mechanisms and other outlets to distract you, it can be a setup for students to turn to alcohol or drugs for relief.</p>

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<p>Thanks GCNP, we are all benefiting from your temporary boredom. Is there any credit given for strong SAT 2 results in Chemistry? Unfortunately my son took Bio AP not Chem AP exam but did get 770 on SAT. He wants MCB as a major with research. He is thinking of a PHD/MD track. Can you get into other Chem with SAT results?</p>

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<p>^^ Great advice from hope4free up there. To clarify, this thread was meant for a view on the sciences. Premed just happened to be a subset. So my focus was on science to begin with, (hence the thread title). I suppose my answer on the major choice was pretty polarizing though.</p>

<p>Ibnhf1,
SAT II scores typically do not place students out of classes (in the sciences). Unless something has changed, I doubt it would help move your son into organic chem freshmen year.</p>

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<p>Thanks, GCN2. While hope4freeride has a point re majors and premed, excellence in the premed curriculum core courses and evidence of serious lab research skills will help your application. I sat in on Dr. Baum’s premed info program with several student premeds who were already accepted into med schools and acting as mentors to underclassmen. He was not kidding when he said that research is expected/norm for admission. Ditto evidence of vocational exploration behind you…via service/shadowing/showing some interest in clinical settings…so in order to get these experiences into your busy lives, you must plan ahead and check in with him and his office early in your Vandy career to stay on track</p>

<p>his final statement was that in the Interviews they are looking for one thing above all…integrity. </p>

<p>I think integrity comes in a million variations in qualities and interests and talents in people…but you know it when you see it. </p>

<p>something else that my son has learned by shadowing a doc this final year in HS…is how much mastering a foreign language helps a doctor today…especially Spanish…</p>

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<p>As far as chemistry goes, many med schools want 2 years of college chemistry, regardless of AP credit. I know someone who took the freshman orgo class, and then ended up going back her junior year and taking gen chem because she didn’t want to take an upper level chem course.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Great, useful post! Besides what silversparkles mentioned, what I quoted above is the only other item I don’t believe to be completely accurate. Volunteering in a clinical setting is important but that setting does not necessarily have to be a hospital. I spent a very minimal amount of time in the VUMC Emergency Department and, after sitting around unable to do anything due to liability issues, I started volunteering at one of the many low-cost clinics around town. One of these, Shade Tree Clinic, is even operated by Vanderbilt medical students and provides an unparalleled medical learning experience. There are ways to see what being a doctor is like outside of the hospitals, and med schools know it! Thanks again for the great post.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all this info! Do you know if Astronomy 103 (Intro Astronomy Lab) fulfills the lab science requirement for AXLE? I hoooope so. Lol.</p>

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<p>Wow, thanks for the post GCN2.</p>

<p>Though one question is whether the science intro classes or the science 2-- classes are huge lecture halls or end up getting smaller. I’m afraid that in college, I’ll end up being another number to the professor rather than a student.</p>

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<p>Great advice from slipsteam99!</p>

<p>INVENIAMVIAM,
Yes it should count. Always check the course catalog when in doubt.</p>

<p>airegin,
Great question. Yes, the classes are rather large. However, you will only become a number if you allow yourself to be one. Many students don’t approach the professor thus office hours become very empty (other times they are very full!). I strongly suggest actively going to office hours and initiating conversation after classes. Find something, even if you already know the answer, to ask for more clarification on. This will start a conversation and make it easy to connect with faculty. I feel that the majority of the faculty (atleast in MCB) are very receptive to students needs, and are especially helpful to those that seek help. However, if you do not approach the faculty it is likely you will become a number in the large intro classes. Even some of the 200 level BSCI classes can be too large for individual attention if you do not make an effort for it.</p>

<p>Hope that helps. I’ll try to have review of the MCB major up before I head back to campus on Saturday.</p>

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<p>Ok, so I began to tentatively examine which courses I want to take. I’m a prospective biosci major (perhaps the general one, perhaps the ecology one. I’m not on a premed track – hoping to enter into the field of wildlife biology). Currently I’ve:</p>

<pre><code>* Multi-Calc 175 Aldroubi (11:00 TR)

  • Intro to Bio Patton/Graham (12:10 MWF) + Lab (1:10-4:00 mtwrf or 9:10-12 tr)

  • Intro to Chem Hanusa (9:10 MWF) or Phillips (11:10 MWF) + Lab (whenever)

  • Discovery (3:10 W) Culture/Thought (MWF 11:10) 7 Wonders (12:30 T)

  • Logic Aikin (10:10 12:10 1:10 MWF) or Astronomy (1:10 MWF) + Lab or Geochem Ayers (8:10 TR) + Lab or a bunch of other courses that I want to take but will probably have to save for later semesters
    </code></pre>

<p>Any thoughts, problems, recommendations? I had wanted to take German but it would put me above my credit limit, so I suppose it’ll have to wait.</p>

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<p>I would personally advice against taking 5 classes with 2 labs. This is a heavy load, (especially if you are an incoming freshmen).</p>

<p>If ANYONE else is teaching Math 175, I would also advice that. If no one else is teaching, make sure you are ready to teach yourself alot of calculus.</p>

<p>I suggest taking the math/bio/chem series with an additional class in the “* Discovery” category.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Huh, Aldroubi’s RMP reviews painted him in a very positive light, but there were plenty of other options. I dunno, I might still take him, I’m used to teaching myself math.</p>

<p>The “discovery…” option is for writing seminars, and I think we can only take one of those, though I’m not entirely sure. </p>

<p>The On the Road with Axle recommends that “Prospective majors in the biological sciences should begin with both the Biological Sciences 110a-110b/111a-111b sequence and the Chemistry 102a…106b sequence in the fall semester of the freshman year.” Surely it can’t be too difficult, if Vanderbilt itself recommends it? And my last category was for fun, mostly – they’re all subjects that I’m interested in but wouldn’t have an incredibly direct application, per se, in my intended career.</p>

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<p>Perhaps I misspoke. I fully support taking Math/Chem/Bio together, with the addition of a writing seminar. I suggest not taking a 5th class along with this (aka your last group of
classes). You’ll have alot of open space in the spring for one of these though.</p>

<p>Basically the following is a good idea for first semester. Adding anymore to it would be putting yourself in a tough spot.
BSCI 110/111
Chem 102/104/106
Math 175
FYWS</p>

<p>Aldroubi means well, he can just be very unorganized.</p>

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<p>I have no intention of taking an Aldroubi class… maybe RMP sounded positive from those students’ POVs, buuuuuuuuuuut I don’t exactly think I have the same mindset about learning/education that they do. The class sounds boring/easy as hell.</p>

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<p>Once again, which teacher would you suggest in his stead?</p>

<p>And anyways, math can (still?) be fun if you move at an accelerated and malleable pace – your own!</p>

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<p>Any of the others?</p>

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<p>In all honesty, our math department is not decorated with great professors. Those that are really great are also very difficult (Simonetti, Rafter). Your options aren’t great no matter who is teaching it.</p>

<p>There are alot of sections of 175, I suggets finding one that fits into your schedule well. In my experience MWF classes are better for math, however I prefer the shorter class period and the extra lecture, I feel it keeps me focused. Plus, MATH 175 is decently interesting towards the end.</p>

<p>Peterson is supposed to be ok, however I haven’t looked on RMP, just referencing a friend. Also I hear Zheng is someone to stay away from.</p>

<p>(Math 175 7 and 175 9)
MATH-175-7 Multivariable Calc 3 LECTURE Jesse Peterson
remember course MWF 1:10 PM 2:00 PM 1206 Stevenson Center
MATH-175-9 Multivariable Calc 3 LECTURE Jesse Peterson
remember course MWF 12:10 PM 1:00 PM 1431 Stevenson Center</p>

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<p>I think I would prefer a teacher who is “really great but also very difficult.” I like them.</p>