<p>This is probably one of the more "honest" response I've read from Skidmore's Financial Aid FAQ (need-aware school):
[quote]
Is Skidmore College need-blind?
Skidmore encourages any student interested in applying for admission to do so regardless of his/her intention to seek financial aid. All candidates are evaluated on the strength of their academic and personal qualifications, without regard to their financial circumstances. The admissions committee makes every effort to meet the demonstrated need of as many admissible candidates as it can. Unfortunately, each year there are more qualified candidates in need of financial aid than the College's resources can support. When all institutional grant resources have been committed, the admissions committee will offer admission to some candidates but place them on a financial aid waiting list. In the final round of the selection process, the committee may also find it necessary to waitlist or deny a small number of candidates on the basis of unmet financial need.
<p>I was actually looking for a link where a school admits on their website that they use finances as a criterion for admission.</p>
<p>It is commonly known that colleges like to admit a diverse class. They commonly consider "uncontrollable" factors such as sex, geography, race, legacy, special talents, character etc in their admission criteria.
The link that JHS kindly provided claims that both Macalester and Carleton both have "need-aware" admissions. However they do not list this on the collegeboard website as a factor in admissions.</p>
<p>I sympathize. My son applied ED to Wesleyan & was rejected much to the shock of GCs, teachers & everyone we know. It really sucked! It was like someone had died. It took a while for him to recover. Everyone was so sure he'd get in, or differed at worse.He has great grades,is a great musician, great sats, sat IIs etc. He's taking AP physics, AP bc calc (after taking ab calc this summer at Conn College & getting an A) AP Vergil (latin), AP music theory blah blah blah.
The GC called & found out that since he wanted to be a math major, they found it incongruous that he hadn't taken chem or bio. His GC addressed that in her recommendation ( he's been a vegetarian his whole life & didn't want to do any dissection & had a scheduling conflict with chem (wanted to pursue highest levels of latin), but rather took environmental science, honors physics & now AP physics which should have more than satisfied their 2 lab science requirement. Anyway the GC learned from their admission office that because of the bio & chem thing, he wasn't considered! this is a school that supposed to value kids who have strong personal convictions (ie animal rights in this case). What a load of crap! Sorry, I'm bitter. My husband went to Wesleyan. Hope they get that they can stop asking us for donations!
He hadn't spent alot of time on other choices.We spent the last couple of weeks in Dec looking. He applied ED2 to Vassar & got in!
We're hoping this is for the best. We hear stories of 2nd choices being the best thing all the time.
This whole college admission process is way out of hand! Good Luck to everyone!</p>
<p>got it - posted at the same time.....
so Skidmore - that is interesting and well, honest. Smith too. Smith claims it affects less than 5% of all applicants. not very many.</p>
<p>I did a quick look on the collegeboard website and there was no reference to financial need or ability to pay (unless you count geographical residence) as a criterion for admission.</p>
<p>I am not saying it doesn't happen - but I think it is pretty rare and most schools count it very little. The danger in assuming that schools consider "need" based on things like number of kids in college and whether or not you will apply for financial aide - is that the poorer may be discouraged from applying or worse families will refuse to apply for financial aide who really need it.</p>
<p>Smith, by the way, has you apply for financial aide with your application - I am sure they have a pretty good picture financially when the decision is made. Not just some vague idea. I, too, wonder if they don't use it to the advantage of some poor kid with no resources. Even highly selective colleges like to show off some "poor" students.</p>
<p>details - that is a good story and a believable one too.<br>
Here is one with two sides - my d's friend applies to Swathmore, NYU and Pitt.
rejected from Swathmore and NYU - (went to Pitt and LOVED it)
Her mother says the rejections were because they have a business and applied for financial aide.
Her math teachers says it was because he advised her to take Calculus her senior year and she refused. English major.
You decide.</p>
[quote]
*Is Stonehill College Need Blind in its admissions? *
Need Blind means that all admissions decisions are made without any knowledge of students' and parents' financial circumstances. While Stonehill adheres to a need-blind admissions policy for most of its admissions decisions, budgetary constraints sometimes result in need-sensitive admissions decisions for a small segment of the applicant population.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And I must disagree with your analysis that it's "pretty rare" and "most schools count it very little." Most schools won't trumpet on their websites that they are need aware; a bit of Googling can show you that a school is need aware even though it's not on the website. (Macalester, St. Olaf, Carleton all have articles or minutes of meetings on their sites that you can easily find saying they're need aware, but you won't find it on the admissions page.) Most schools cannot afford to be need blind. </p>
<p>On the other hand, schools do trumpet that they are need-blind. (And that they meet 100% of need.)</p>
<p>I am of the belief that one must assume that a school is need-aware unless it clearly states otherwise. And I'm pretty sure that there is some gaming based on demographics, zip codes, schools attended, etc. even with need-blind schools, to identify low-income students.</p>
<p>From details:
Forgot to mention the financial aid component of the wesleyan thing. We absolutely applied for fin aid. Has anyone else noticed that the Head of Admissions & the Head of Financial Aid is THE SAME PERSON! This seems to be the case almost everywhere! I seriously doubt the whole need blind thing. Wesleyan claimed to be when we went for tour & info session. Seems like having one person heading up both areas leaves them open for a conflict of interest.</p>
<p>Back in my idealistic, pre-CC days, I too thought most schools were need-blind, or that finances didn't make a difference.</p>
<p>While I don't think every rejection should be pinned on financial aid -- since many accepted students do get financial aid -- I now understand that finances play a role in admissions. I would imagine the size of that role varies among colleges, and even changes from year to year. If the student has something that college wants -- whether it be high SAT scores, engineering major or trumpet player -- they'll accept you no matter what your financial need.</p>
<p>Many people argue that even at need-blind schools, financial need plays a part. If you look at the percent of students qualifying for financial aid over a period of time at any one college, you'll see that the percentages rarely change more than a few percentage points. (I learned that fact from someone here on CC -- was it mini? Can't remember.) Anyway, I agree it's a little suspicious that every year a college manages to enroll the same percentage of full-pay students. </p>
<p>Justamom-- do a search for "enrollment management." Read a story that was in Atlantic Monthly a few years ago. It's very educational.</p>
<p>Edited to add: I also believe that students should apply wherever they want, regardless of financial need, because they never know what will happen. But a student who has financial need must have a financial safety, too.</p>
<p>"While Stonehill adheres to a need-blind admissions policy for most of its admissions decisions, budgetary constraints sometimes result in need-sensitive admissions decisions for a small segment of the applicant population."</p>
<p>I love this language. They're need-blind, except for when they aren't.</p>
<p>In the end, colleges, too, have to balance their budgets like the rest of us, and I do understand parents' frustration on a college's pseudo need-blind status.</p>
<p>That language is actually not too far from the truth for many need-sensitive or need-aware schools. Issues of aid (not just the application, but the amount needed) only arise at the margins of the admissions decisions. There are kids who are clear admits, kids that the school decides they want after some degree of process, kids who are clear rejections, and then there are the "maybe yes, maybe no" ones. Those right on the line of acceptance/rejection are the ones whose applications become need-sensitive.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The GC called & found out that since he wanted to be a math major, they found it incongruous that he hadn't taken chem or bio.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is a nerve-wracking thread to begin with but this hits home. My daughter wants to be a math major but isn't particularly interested in science. Do you mean your son didn't take any chem or bio or opted not to take the AP courses after the intro ones? Our school requires everyone to take the first courses in chem, bio, earth science and physics. My daughter will have that but AP sciences are given the same block as AP English and she'd rather take the English class next year. That doesn't make her any less of a math kid, just not a science one. This is the reason she wants to go to a LAC over a tech school. </p>
<p>In response to MomOFour
He did't take any bio or chem. No bio because of the aforementioned vegetarianism/animal rights issue. And chem conflicted with higher level latin courses. He did take these lab sciences: Environmental Science, Honors physics & is currently taking the most feared AP Physics (only 6 kids dared) whichis much more rigorous than either AP bio or AP Chem.
The "light" regarding Math only went "on" for him as a junior, pror to that he didn't like math and wanted to be a Classics major. He was also accepted to WPI (worcester polytechnical institute) which didn't have a problem re the lack of bio & chem. Perhaps they actually read the letter of recommendation from his GC re course selection. Where is your daughter applying?</p>
<p>details,
well, phooey on Wesleyan. I think that its important that we remember that, in addition to all of the machinations discussed here, schools do make mistakes - especially if they (or a admissions officer on a bad day) won't look outside the box - or is denied by policy the ability to do so. Not so much for the kids, but for themselves. Wesleyan lost your kid - who we know is smart and has a lot more ethics than the average camper. Bowdoin WL'd mine - and I think that was a mistake for them. Fortunately for us, it was a WL (and we know the statistics on those ...) and my kid had the satisfaction of declining it.</p>
<p>JustAMom, the admissions counselor giving the info session we attended at Dickinson last spring admitted that they were NOT need blind in response to a direct question from DH. He was seemed somewhat uncomfortable answering the question, but stated that unfortunately, Dson could not afford to be need blind, as much as they would like to be. We appreciated the honesty.</p>
<p>Regarding enrollment management and the reality vs. the myth of need blind admissions policies, I think this was the article sly_vt is referring to: </p>
<p>Thanks for your support OhioMom!
Phooey on Wesleyan is much more polite than what I've been thinking! I'm sure we all get a little "mother lion" when it comed to our kids! When my son finally recovered from their rejection, he had a plan...... Go to college,go to grad school, get his PhD, apply for a teaching job at Wesleyan, get offered a position and then ...... reject them! I'm sure he'll have forgotten them by then!</p>
<p>details: There are plenty of young men when accepted to both institutions choose Vassar over Wesleyan. Twinmom's S did, and I know mine would have if he hadn't chosen a third school. I don't think your son lost out, and I bet he'll love Vassar.</p>
<p>About the money, I know it is extremely important. DS admitted or waitlisted at every need-blind institution he applied to and rejected at all "need sensitive" or "need aware." Coincidence? I don't think so when acceptances included Brown, Williams, UChicago. </p>
<p>DD was practically told she could get off at waitlist if she agreed to forgo FA at Sarah Lawrence and Skidmore. And accepted at Barnard (which she is thrilled to attend).</p>
<p>details, she's a junior now so we're in the still looking phase. Her high school has a limited number of AP sections so it makes scheduling problematic.</p>
<p>We're going to have a fairly large amount of need, she's a flexible bloom where she's planted sort of kid who doesn't have a particular dream school in mind. Although I was aware that the number of need blind schools was small, I don't think I fully thought out the effect on admissions. I'll be encouraging her to feel free to add schools to her list of potentials.</p>