second bachelors with a PH.d?

Graduate School
1

<p>Hi! I will be graduating this spring with a bachelors in pure math. I did not do only pure theory though. I have finished almost all of the first two years of electrical engineering.</p>

<p>I've been accepted to a masters program in computer science. My goal is to work on AI and Robotics.</p>

<p>I would like to finish my bachelors in EE when I go on for my PH.d in Computer Science.</p>

<p>Has anyone ever heard of someone doing a second bachelors while they get their PH.d? If so, would you know if colleges would explicitly prohibit this or would it be just rare?</p>

<p>Thanks! This has been disturbing me because it determines what classes I will take my last semester.</p>

<p>P.S. I'm really hoping for some insanely positive feedback that says this is doable. Then I'm going to ask if it's possible to finish at least a minor in mechanical engineering along with the second bachelors</p>

2

<p>OK. It is doable.</p>

<p>But, it would be a total waste of time. Do you really think, once you have a PhD that anyone cares what your undergrad degree is? Not in your life, at least not here in the US.</p>

<p>I think a better option is to find a program that offers a MS (or MA) en route to the PhD, in the same field. This way if you don't finish the PhD, you still have a credential validating your skills in the field.</p>

3

<p>Cool. Thanks for the reply.</p>

<p>I think I understand what you mean... But isn't the case with Robotics different?</p>

<p>Sure, I'll have my PH.d in AI and comp. sci. for robotics (path planning, decision making), but that's far detached from actually building robots from scratch I think. </p>

<p>It seems you would honestly need a double bachelors in EE and ME to begin working on this.</p>

<p>Personally, I think academia is fouled in the sense that it separates things so much so. But nonetheless, what I want to be is a full robotist. I really want to be able to build all aspects of the robot, mind and body. And one way or another, I'm going to.</p>

<p>So I'll have a PH.d, but I still need an enormous amount of knowledge and experience to do the other half.</p>

<p>Eventually I want to open a robotics company, but that's 15 or 20 years on the horizon I think. By which time my Japanese should be closer to fluent, lol. </p>

<p>(I was in the Navy and lived in Japan for 4 of my 6 yrs.)</p>

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<p>You don't understand academe, nor do you understand how folks look at PhD holders. Informed folks could care less what "program" gave you your degree. They want to know if you have the skills to do the job, be it filling a hole in a department or handling a job in a company. </p>

<p>This is why the content (courses but more importantly research topic(s) of one's degree program is as important as where you get the degree. Many would say the content is the most important factor. And your research work is what is described in your CV.</p>

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<p>Well, I'll say I'm not a "know-it all" about academia, or PH.d holders, but sweeping me into the ignorant category without knowing anything about me is rude, imo, and I'd appreciate a little respect. I do actually know quite a bit about both, and I've been in industry and the military too, so I'm no child.</p>

<p>I agree, that content is most important, and therein lies my problem. I need to acquire an enormous amount of it, that borders honestly on two more bachelors, one in EE the other in ME. If it only took 3 or 4 classes from each I wouldn't have posted anything, but I'm talking about almost all of each of the majors. Thankfully, I do have the first two years of EE almost done, and thus at least the first 1/2 of ME too. Maybe I'll find a program that lets me do both in one degree when I'm going for my PH.d or so I hope? Do you know of any programs that allow for a double in EE and ME?</p>

<p>I do believe that the current professional understanding of professional roboticists, is that to be a well rounded roboticist is to know all these fields pretty well. It's one of the reasons that the field is so difficult. It spans all of them, and fairly deeply too. I'm here to figure out how to gain that knowledge.</p>

<p>I'll agree that no one is going to care what my degree is per se, but they are going to care about what I know and what I can do. Especially, when I am asking for large sums to open a company. And it is true that my research will be most valuable in this regard, but, to do that research, they way I want to...</p>

<p>I still need a solution to gain this knowledge and experience. I think teaching myself the theory is fine, but gaining the hands on electrical/mechanical experience is going to cost me more money than I have to do correctly in a house garage.</p>

<p>There's another issue too. If I understand the industrial engineering world correctly, then ABET certificiation is an enormously important. Industry and investors want to know you've been well trained, which means certification of some time.</p>

<p>Thanks for replying again. Does this clear things up a bit?</p>

6

<p>Yes, your post clarifies, in that it tells me you know what subject matter you want to cover. </p>

<p>But it still appears to me, perhaps even more after this post, that you don't understand what a PhD is about. Based on your most recent post, maybe what you want is another BS or perhaps a MS or two. But I can't say for certain, as I don't know your background and I don't know the robotics field as well as you do.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

7

<p>Thanks again for another reply.</p>

<p>Entirely pedantic now, a PH.d is about being trained to do independent novel research in your field. But, there's a whole lot of philosophical "buts" with that definition.</p>

<p>One, science and engineering PH.d's are radically different. They're both trained to do research, but science is looking for answers it can't change, and engineering is looking for ways to create what they want to create.</p>

<p>Robotics blurs all the fields, and it's one of the main reason I love it. (AI too)</p>

<p>It's a new world. The days of being a prestigeous Princeton graduate in some Ivory tower degree (such as math) are not what they use to be. The current system fails to educate people broadly and deeply enough today. We're stuck on a pre-internet, pre-robotic, pre-AI world way of thinking. In my humble opinion.</p>

<p>The problem is, I know what I need to know, and I know how much that is, and under the current system it's a ton, 2 more bachelors plus the knowledge to do this research.</p>

<p>Here's my thinking now. I'll take all the courses I need in EE and ME throughout my years as a graduate student. I'll focus narrowly on AI and/or Robotics for my PH.d, and then hopefully afterwards I can go start my own company and/or at the same time research group at a university without robotics.</p>

<p>I'm betting though, I'll end up only a handful of classes short of a double in EE and ME. Maybe when I'm professing, I can finish up that so that I can be a certified engineer too.</p>

<p>Are there rules against a Professor finishing another degree at another school while they're professing?</p>

<p>Thanks for the conversation! What do you think?</p>

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<p>There are no rules against obtaining another degree while acting as a faculty member, other than the ridicule one is likely to receive from colleagues. :)</p>

<p>Research is about what you know, and how you apply that knowledge, whether through depth or breadth. In your case, you would "prove" your breadth in ME and EE through the kind of projects you pursue, funding you receive, results you publish. Degrees have little to do with it, especially what the degree is called. </p>

<p>I tis interesting that a key requirement for a successful research career is the ability to learn new disciplines. Whatever you learned in grad school will be out of date in a few years anyway. So, in some ways, one gets no "extra credit" for mastering related fields that are needed for one's research program. This mastery of new areas is required, and is what leads to the creation of new academic disciplines.</p>

<p>Some of the great pioneering molecular biologists were trained as physicists. None of them got addiitonal degrees when they moved into molecular biology (which they actually invented!). All worked had mastering a new set of skills though.</p>

<p>At the risk of redundancy, don't focus on what degrees you might need. Focus on what work you want to do, and matching that with programs that will allow you to do so within their normal structure.</p>

<p>Frankly, you need to hit the road and start talking to some active researchers at universities, talking about your specific interests. You may find a comfortable home, as I'm sure you are not the first person to recognize the need for this combination of skills!</p>

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<p>I see your point. I'm just nervous about picking up this many skills and abilities on my own. Furthermore, I've been around the world a few times, been to war, and I know more people are BullS about what they really now than anyone wants to admit to in public. </p>

<p>I'm just looking for ways to authentically have these skills and not be a BS artist. I've seen too many, in and out of academia.</p>

<p>Thanks for the replies. It's good food for thought.</p>