<p>still..what do English skills have to do with intelligence?
Shouldn’t a REAL math/science/reasoning test be more able to determine something like this?</p>
<p>Picture this: a friend of mine gets 450 on Verbal. Yes, that is his level with vocabulary. He didn’t know what “trouble” means. He gets 240 (out of 300) on the Toefl..which is a lame exam.
In the essay he wrote about Einstein refusing to take Nobel Prize money. And something about his pet rabbit. Trust me..he stinks at English (actually even his grade in English is 8…and EVERYONE gets a 10)
But…he gets 750 on writing. 12 essay
Also he’s an IMO. He got 680 on the math test.</p>
<p>
[quote]
still..what do English skills have to do with intelligence?
Shouldn’t a REAL math/science/reasoning test be more able to determine something like this?</p>
<p>Picture this: a friend of mine gets 450 on Verbal. Yes, that is his level with vocabulary. He didn’t know what “trouble” means. He gets 240 (out of 300) on the Toefl..which is a lame exam.
In the essay he wrote about Einstein refusing to take Nobel Prize money. And something about his pet rabbit. Trust me..he stinks at English (actually even his grade in English is 8…and EVERYONE gets a 10)
But…he gets 750 on writing. 12 essay
Also he’s an IMO. He got 680 on the math test.</p>
<p>How does this measure intelligence, again?</p>
<p>Well just excuse me, but SAT is bs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>actually, the REAL mission of the SATs is to predict success for people's freshmen year in college. and guess what? if you don't know what "trouble" is, you cannot communicate in college or understand lectures. therefore you are not ready for college</p>
<p>and if you are imo and you are having trouble solving basic math, then you need to retake algebra. or learn english. whichever is the reason you get 680</p>
<p>btw, negru, anectotes or "statistics" without citation are worthless. i can tell you my dog scored 2400, and that wouldn't mean a thing</p>
<p>Yeesh. This thread is intimidating. I'm now questioning my worthiness to even go to college, and I got a 2280. Personally, I think this whole thing is a sick process of profit and the extreme quantification of living, breathing human beings.
And, yes, I KNOW that this is simply college admissions. No, I couldn't think of a better way to do it. But I heartily disagree with the original poster.
Of course, SATs are very important, despite what any admissions person says. But as it's been said before, what is really the difference between a 2250 and a 2400? It can literally be a few questions. If I knew that some person was extremely intelligent, I have a general expectation of his score, but a 2250 certainly wouldn't surprise me. And, as a person who got both a 690 and an 800 on the verbal section, I can tell you that the difference is the particular vocab you know. And nobody knows every single word that they use, I don't care how smart you are.
So it depends how cynical you are, but I think that two profiles have to be ridiculously similar for an admissions person to rely on 100 points or so if we're past the 2200 level, and certainly if we're past 2300. Of course, I may just be bitter because I missed that mark by 20 points. But anway: please don't freak out. I can almost guarantee that anyone reading this scored in the top decile of the country. So you're smart, certainly. Don't let the SAT be your life.</p>
<p>
[quote]
still..what do English skills have to do with intelligence?
Shouldnt a REAL math/science/reasoning test be more able to determine something like this?</p>
<p>Picture this: a friend of mine gets 450 on Verbal. Yes, that is his level with vocabulary. He didnt know what trouble means. He gets 240 (out of 300) on the Toefl..which is a lame exam.
In the essay he wrote about Einstein refusing to take Nobel Prize money. And something about his pet rabbit. Trust me..he stinks at English (actually even his grade in English is 8 and EVERYONE gets a 10)
But he gets 750 on writing. 12 essay Also hes an IMO. He got 680 on the math test.</p>
<p>at top schools, such as the ivies, EVERYONE has basically the same numbers, that's why you need OTHER things to stand out; if you're not an otherwise interesting applicant, then the difference between a 2400 and a 2250 won't get you in to Harvard</p>
<p>and with all due respect, anyone who thinks there's a major difference between a person with a 2250 and a 2300 is retarded and does not deserve to get into any college (unless the 2250 was really lopsided, like 800,800,650 vs. 760,770,770)</p>
<p>There are different levels in scores. 2000 is the base for top school admissions. 2100 gives a small amount of breathing room if grades and ECs are strong. 2250 is good enough. 2300 puts you in the top tier of applicants. 2400 may put you over the top and make up for a few Bs for top school admissions. SATs matter, there is no getting around that. How much they matter is based on the rest of your app. If your grades are strong, ECs are strong, essays are strong, a 2250 or a 2400 will make very little difference. The major difference between a 2200 and a 2300 is shown in the above post. If scores are lopsided, it hurts. If scores are all 750+, then it makes almost no difference.</p>
<p>In most cases, you will not be rejected for having a lower SAT score and not accepted for having a higher SAT score, but it is best to be high than low when everything is as tight as Ivy admissions. You do not need to retake a 2300+, but retaking a 2100+ like I did will help you increase your chances to get into a top college. I said increase your chances, not get you in, because nothing will guarantee you admission to any college (except for buying a few new buildings every few years) but little things like SATs will help. </p>
<p>One final thing: who said that the low SAT scores are by URMs? They are not all by URMs. Assuming that URMs will make up the bottom 25% of scores is racist and just plain wrong. I know several URMs who are applying, or already in top schools and their SATs were 2200+ (one at Princeton with a solid 2300). They do not make up the lowest scores at these colleges as a whole. While it is true that there are URMs admitted with 2100s and 2000s, there are also white male candidates admitted with 2000s. To be admitted with a 2000 means you have a hook, whether it is athletics, legacy status, or you cured cancer, you got into the college not based on your SAT, but based on your other stuff. For us normal candidates, URM included, we need to have the best SATs, the best GPAs, and some very solid ECs in our areas of interst to stand a chance at top school admissions. If you are Joe Schmoe with a 3.7 and 2000 and expect to get into an Ivy or other top school, you are kidding yourself. Sure there are people who get in with those scores, but they have something special about them that Joe Schmoe does not. An average person will need top of the top stats to make up for legacys, recurtied athletes, and the equally qualified URMs who automatically take the spots.</p>