Seeking Relatively Unselective School with Rigorous Math Classes

College Search & Selection
1

<p>My life went quite astray in high school - I'll (with luck) be graduating this June with a 2.6 UW GPA. Nonetheless, I'm glad that I was able to hold on to the enthusiasm for mathematics that I developed in earlier years. </p>

<p>Results:</p>

<p>AP's: US (5), Calc AB (5), Compsci AB (5) , Phys C Mech, E&M, French Lang (3), Latin Lit
Four College Courses in Greek (A's in all)</p>

<p>Estimated rank: lowest 5-10% of 600
Estimated course selection difficulty: most demanding
Nine F's, Five D's (H.S. classes)</p>

<p>National Merit Semifinalist
SAT II Math II 800, Sat II Physics 800</p>

<p>Interesting Courses:
Modern Physics, Computer Graphics, Multivariate Calculus, Linear Algebra
Differential Equations, Advanced CAD, Shakespeare,
Great Books, Western Thought, Wall Street Finance, Music Theory</p>

<p>Activities:
Principal 2nd Violinist in school orchestra (9 & 10)
Principal 2nd Violinist in community orchestra (10)
Assistant Concertmaster in community orchestra (12)
Co-concertmaster of pit orchestra (12)
Member of school string quartet
A Capella (9 & 10)
Member of organization that supports student life (not official student gov though) (9-12)
Freshmen Caucus Member
Volunteer tutoring (9-12)
Producer of <em>King Lear</em> (12)
Tennis (9-12)
Physics Research (12)
Math and Physics Competition Participant (9-12)
EXTREMELY volatile family circumstances (9-12)</p>

<p>I will be taking much needed time off past June - I didn't apply to colleges this year. </p>

<p>But, other than performing better (and taking the SAT I), what do you think my next steps should be?</p>

<p>I'm looking to major in theoretical mathematics, and would like to find an intellectually diverse environment where a number of students truly immerse in number-study. I'd also like to study physics, economics, and computer science, quantitatively, while concurrently broadening my horizons in the humanities (to elaborate a bit, I enjoyed reading full works of Plato and Augustine, and written 30-page papers, so I'd prefer to avoid dumbed-down English for math folk). In summary, everyone at my ideal school would enjoy the education process, the curriculum would be challenging with an in-depth presentation (but not requiring more than 60 h/wk in focused study), and I'd not be at the apogee intellectually (esp. in math).</p>

<p>If you could suggest some schools (and provide chances), that would be great.
Thanks for reading my long post - thanks in advance especially to those who opt to reply.</p>

2

<p>Frankly, with a 2.6 GPA you would probably be best off starting at your local college (area university if you can get in). What can your parents afford to pay?</p>

3

<p>My parents are now divorced - my father is not inclined to contribute, and my mom and I are rent-poor. It looks as if it’ll be loans mostly unless I can get grants / financial aid. I wish I could get away from home, though, and would be willing to take out loans because my future is a worthwhile investment.</p>

4

<p>I would look especially closely at public universities, as they are generally more forgiving of applicants with strong test scores who happen to have lower academic records. So long as you write a well-articulated letter explaining the effects of your family circumstances, you should have a fair chance.</p>

5

<p>Do you have any idea what your “expected family contribution” would be (including your father’s income and assets)? If you can qualify for need-based aid, then the kind of school where I think you belong is St. John’s College (if their Great Books curriculum appeals to you) or possibly Reed College. With your high school grades it will take effort to convince either school to take a chance on you, but the A’s in challenging college courses may help (along with your very high scores and interesting ECs).</p>

<p>As wittywonka suggests, check out your state universities too. </p>

<p>Go ahead and take the SAT I soon to get your scores on record. Do you think you can get good recommendations from a teacher or other adult in your life who knows your family situation well? That could make a difference. Meanwhile, stay active and productive in your gap year so you can show signs of commitment. Take more college courses and work hard for top grades. When the time comes, schedule interviews if you think they will work to your advantage.</p>

6

<p>Sorry, but it doesn’t look like a serious post to me.</p>

7

<p>Definitely look at your in-state public schools. If your flagship is competitive, you might want to attend a community college first as many state flagships have good transfer agreements with in-state CCs.</p>

<p>Go to the websites of schools within your range and look up the webpages for different math courses. Many will have recent homework assignments or sample tests You might be surprised by some of the rigor available.</p>

8

<p>Erin’s Dad, wittywonka, tk21769, & noimagination:
I appreciate your responses. </p>

<p>tk- I’m aware of the St. John’s humanities program. I like how it brings the class together in discussing texts (which lends greater understanding), but I’m not sure that the program is conducive to development of math-problem solving prowess. </p>

<p>Do you know if any “Johnnies” form ad-hoc tutorials to further their practical math skills (e.g. Putnam preparation)?
What is the student body’s overall attitude towards mathematics at this seemingly humanities-oriented school?
(I know, however, that St. John sends a good number to math grad programs.)</p>

<p>I’m already aware of Reed (undergrad nuclear reactor!), but if anyone has any special info (esp. on math), please share. </p>

<p>I’m working towards figuring out my EFC, but my father doesn’t want to share data-
in short it’s difficult. I’ll post with an update on that asap. </p>

<p>I’ll have good recs but a very negative school report - my counselor dislikes me. </p>

<p>Public universities seem worth investigating, wonka and tk - but can anyone give me more specific info, esp. regarding test-based admissions? I’m in NY state.
(USNews isn’t too holistic, and my admissions case is quite singular.)</p>

<p>( bruno123 - I’m honest in describing my situation; due to family problems my school-attendance was sporadic (although I did good work), resulting in extremely polar assessments from my teachers, who didn’t bother distributing syllabi. Also, my school has many corrupt teachers who give grades based on what they think of their students rather than work actually completed- and most of them disliked me because I was plainly candid with them. — Please don’t hinder my ability to get advice. )</p>

<p>noimagination - thanks, but I don’t know what’s in my range due to how strange my situation is. I’m in NYS… (on a more technical note, i’ve taken the equivalent of all of local cc’s math offerings except for a mini abstract algebra course that covers what I consider common knowledge ± a few hrs.) and my Greek classes were at a 4 year public school - I took them during 9 and 10th grades and found them to be far too shallow. I just looked at SUNY Binghampton’s course offerings - it’s not easy to find hw/tests for courses past calculus. (What school were you thinking of?) I’d appreciate if someone can suggest some less selective / public schools with hw/tests/rigor near that of intermediate-level MIT OCW courses (albeit curved, I guess)- because I do problem sets on that site from time to time for enrichment (getting correct answers, and learning a bit too.) Can anyone comment on the quality of the student body at math-strong public schools that I have a shot at?</p>

<p>Are there any good schools (here or abroad) that will admit a student solely based on testing?
I’m open to studying anywhere (in English or French) at reasonable expense.</p>

9

<p>Your academic record in math is outstanding. I think you could have done ok in the admissions process. </p>

<p>I think money and your father not contributing is going to be a bigger problem than your academic record. Maybe go to a CUNY like City College for the first two years and save money so that you can transfer. Or, maybe just excel at City College and apply to PhD programs where you’ll be funded. </p>

<p>Can you get into/afford Stony Brook? That would be a good option.</p>

<p>As you know, you are very much an outlier so most schools are reaches, but ignoring money, schools with strong math that may let you in despite your grades. Some may even still be taking applications for the fall. </p>

<p>Canada - totally numbers based, they may just care about your math science record and they definitely won’t care about grades before Grade 11:
University of Toronto
University of Waterloo - (Very strong math school in Canada that also has January Admissions, so you wouldn’t have to wait a whole year)
[Faculty</a> of Mathematics | University of Waterloo](<a href=“http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/]Faculty”>http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/)</p>

<p>Private Colleges where you have some chance, which are the baccalurate origin of a high percentage of math/science PhDs</p>

<p>Harvey Mudd
Reed
Kalamazoo
Lawrence University
Beloit
Case Western
St Olaf (Sometimes on the list of schools that still have openings in May)</p>

<p>Less selective Publics with NRC ranked PhD programs in math. Many of the applications are very quick. </p>

<h1>18 Minnesota (~22K OOS Tuition + Fees)</h1>

<h1>28 Stony Brook</h1>

<h1>33 Purdue</h1>

<h1>46 Indiana</h1>

<h1>46 Utah</h1>

<h1>57 Oregon</h1>

<h1>60 Arizona</h1>

<h1>76 SUNY Buffalo</h1>

10

<p>Your whole post was screaming St. Johns. I really think that you should look more into it. From what I know about it, it doesn’t seem to have too much of a humanities bent (it seems uncannily balanced to me), especially when you consider that the number of students who go on to get math PhDs is ridiculously high. If you want to go down that path, St. Johns would provide one of the best programs to prepare you for grad school into which you would have a good chance at admission. Your grades wouldn’t really hurt you there, especially if you explain the circumstances and they see that you are academically strong. You basically get in on your essays. St. Johns would probably be especially impressed by the Greek classes. :)</p>

11

<p>I had some more thoughts. I’m really concerned about how you pay for 4 years of college. That’s where I think you’re going to hit a wall first. As I said, your academic issues can be explained away by your test scores and your home life. </p>

<p>I think being totally realistic, you need to maximize the number of credits that you go in with subject to the constraint of getting the really good education that you want. This may allow you to graduate in 3 years or less, which will substantially reduce the amount that you have to borrow - if you can even borrow that much. You’ve taken or are taking a lot of APs. Study hard for the next 3 weeks. Think of each AP exam as an $85 investment that can save you $1K a piece. That’s quite a return. </p>

<p>While St Johns sounds great at first, it’s really a 4 year program, not specifically suited to math. I just don’t see how the financial “math” works. Without your father paying, I’m not sure how much need-based financial aid you can get, and thus, you will have to rely on merit aid, which given your GPA is not likely to be forthcoming, except perhaps from Case, which is known to be very generous. </p>

<p>I think of all of the public schools, I think that Waterloo has the math culture that you want, and I think you’ll get in (especially if you can pull 5’s on the Physics C exams), but I’m not sure how much credit that gives you and it costs $29K (CAN) per year. Toronto also has the culture that you want. This is a very serious school, unlike the US party schools.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if you can use some combination of a CUNY/SUNY and end up with a degree from Stony Brook, potentially living at home (I’m not sure where you live) you could potentially get into a graduate program that funds you. At each school figure out how much credit you get between your AP courses and college courses. Also see if you can self-study and take any CLEP exams, which are accepted at CUNY/SUNY, but not at many of the other schools. This may be especially useful to satisfy distribution requirements that could extend your tenure at a school at great expense. See if these schools have a maximum number of credits that you can go in with. Then work out the remaining classes that you need for the degree program that you want. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

12

<p>Reed would be a great choice, except they require Non-Custodial Parent info:</p>

<p>

[Reed</a> College | Financial Aid | REED COLLEGE - Financial Aid](<a href=“http://www.reed.edu/financialaid/financing_applying.html]Reed”>http://www.reed.edu/financialaid/financing_applying.html)</p>

<p>And Reed would definitely be a reach school.</p>

13

<p>As has been pointed out, SUNY Stony Brook seems like it might be a good choice. Again, though, money might be an issue:</p>

<pre><code> Living on-campus Living at home Commuting, not living at home
</code></pre>

<p>In-state tuition and fees: $6,489 $6,489 $6,489
Out-of-state tuition and fees: $14,389 $14,389 $14,389
Room and board: $10,018 $11,240
Books and supplies: $900 $900 $900
Estimated personal expenses: $1,292 $1,292 $1,292
Transportation expense: $500 $3,968 $3,968 </p>

<p>You will probably be eligible for the $5500/yr federal student loans, but that still leaves you with a minimum of several thousand dollars to cover.</p>

<p>A couple of questions:</p>

<p>Would you be willing to live at home? I don’t know what your family circumstances are, but it’s not unreasonable, I suppose, if you wanted to get away from NY.</p>

14

<p>If you are in NYS, Stony Brook is an obvious recommendation. They have a top-notch math program. Look at the department page as I believe they have some course info available.</p>

<p>SUNY Buffalo might also be worth a look.</p>

15

<p>You should apply to Caltech and MIT. They’ll see everything about you as stellar except for your GPA, which you should be able to explain. Carnegie Mellon as well.</p>