Seems that colleges are enrolling more Black Immigrants than Black Americans

College Confidential Community
21

<p>Kenshinsan, I appreciate your post. I understand your perspective and your disdain towards Black people. Even now being in college, I too, have little bursts of anger towards them and say, "Ugh I can't stand Black people". I my high school I couldn't stand their ignorance, how they cared so much about clothes, how they thought everyone was out to get them, how they judged themselves and anyone else with dark skin, and how they just didn't know that they were destroying their ethnicity future. What I even hated more was that white people would automatically group me with these rude people and treat me like I was stupid. That's when I started to play down my blackness, and emphasize that I was only African. </p>

<p>In college I learned that it was stupid to try that. Why should I say I'm not "black" but "Nigerian" when a white person asks. I realized that it doesn't matter how much you separate yourself from black people, because in their eyes, the white man and woman, we are ALL black. And in thinking that black people were this and that, I was using the same discriminatory method they used to define us, I was grouping a whole group of people together and defining them. </p>

<p>Not all black people are rude and ignorant and I saw that in college. Yes many of them do not get good test scores and they do not seem to care about it, but look at their history and what it has done to them. There situation does not give them room to improve as their brothers and sisters in Africa have done. Though I do think their act is stupid, I have to try and remember all that before I judge them. When the white man sees Black-Americans and Black immigrants fighting and hating each other, then he knows that he has done his job. He has succeeded in further breaking apart a people, an act he started in the slave trade. </p>

<p>So Kenshinsan, I know your anger is legitimate, but it may not be well-placed. Try to open your mind and look at the individual situations these black people at your school are in. Many of them are fighting battles that are much more important than school and could care less if their English is broken. Others may have a lack of the guardianship that you find in your parents and find it in the false images of Blackness that they see in the streets and the media. And also always remember that without Black-Americans, none of us, Asians, Jewish people, Hispanics, and all other minorities or immigrants, would never have been able to enjoy the small freedoms we have let alone go to an Ivy League school</p>

22

<p>Kenshinsan:
I cannot believe you posted that. That was the rudest most arrogant thing I've ever read. I am a "black" american and you state that you don't wish to be associated with us. Well guess what? I've never met a "black" american that wanted to be called African American. I don't consider myself in any way African I'm an American. Nor do I particularly like Africans but I would never have posted that i hate africans until I read your post. Honestly I don't know ANY black americans who like Africans and mostly everyone I know gets offended when someone calls them Afican American. I don't know what area you lived in but maybe it was the "ghetto" because if you lived in a nice area you'd realize that there are alot of blacks who are educated. I attend a college preparatory school that is top in my state and there are about 50 other black americans at this school and it is a small school. I've met many Africans who were just as rude if not more rude than blacks. I accidently bumped my basket into an African guy at the grocery store because I was talking to my friends and didn't realize and he purposely knocked me over. Another time I was on a school bus and this African guy got mad at one of my friends and he kept beating her and gave her a concussion. He could have hurt her even worse but a black guy jumped in front of her so he'd stop hitting the girl and stated "i know your from nigeria but in america we don't hit girls." Another example is when I was at the mall and this african guy was selling sunglasses and the guy stated "women shouldn't be allowed out in public." Lastly my mom has a friend from Liberia and she said men in africa are awful and that they were taught to just drop their wives off at the hospital when they were in labor and let them find their own way home. How is any of this kind. My moms friend told her daughter to find an educated black american and do NOT marry an african man like she did.
I honestly wish people would STOP associating black americans with african immigrants. We don't even look similar. The only thing we have in common is skin color. From my experience black americans tend to have nicer hair, and clearer skin, and are taller without accents. Oh and I don't believe your dad has anything to worry about with you bringing home a black american girl. Most of us would never marry an African anyways.
By the way I have a normal name and wealthy parents. My father happens to be an attorney and my mother is a psychologist and I am very proud of my black american boyfriend whose parents are both doctors. He also attends my preparatory school and is very intelligent.
So next time you get on your high horse and talk down about black americans consider the fact that most of us consider you immigrants just like all other immigrants and dislike being associated with you more than you dislike being associated with us.</p>

23

<p>"I realized that it doesn't matter how much you separate yourself from black people, because in their eyes, the white man and woman, we are ALL black."</p>

<p>Generally, people can tell when a black person is a recent immigrant because of their accent. So, no, white people don't lump all blacks together. The lump all the gangstas (which can also include some whites, hispanics, etc) together.</p>

<p>"Those of you who go to a middle or high school with mostly black-americans know that they are loud, rude, etc."</p>

<p>I can attest to the fact that this statement is NOT true, seeing as I just graduated from a middle school that was 40% african american, 40% white, 15% hispanic, and 5% asian. A very small percent of the african americans were recent immigrants. I'd say about 1/2 of all blacks at my school were "loud and rude". Maybe 1/5 hispanic, 1/10 white, and .1/100 asians were "loud and rude".</p>

<p>IMO, blacks are proportionately more obnoxious in public high/middle schools because their race has only been free for two generations. In slave times, they HAD to "only care for their own" because that's the only way they could survive. Two generations not a very long time to work your way up in the social latter and obtain a "better" mentality.</p>

<p>"How (black-americans) speak reeks of ignorance."</p>

<p>No, it reeks of falling into peer pressure. Most black-americans are "ignorant" of how to speak correct English, some simply choose not to because they want to be like their friends.</p>

<p>Anyway, the point is, not ALL black-americans fit into the mold you are describing. As for the ones that do, you can't blame them--it's not easy to rebel against what you were born into.</p>

24

<p>Wowzer, now your doing the same thing you accused Kenshinsan of doing. And neither of you are helping yourselves by putting each other down. Like I said you cannot define a whole group just because of some people that offended you. Wowzer you have never met me who is a kind Nigerian with a respectful Nigerian father, and Kenshinsan you have not met all the black people in American to be able to conclude that they are rude and ignorant.</p>

<p>And that's where I think the article went wrong, giving Black Americans and Black immigrants characteristics because of stereotypes. Stereotypes have plagued black people(and yes we are ALL black in the rest of the world's eyes) for centuries. So why should we ruin ourselves further and stereotype ourselves and fight about it?</p>

<p>And Wowzer, you should know the only reason a lot of Black Americans have straighter hair is because of white infiltration. And I really don't see how white like hair is "better". I also can tell that you know little of Africa, your ancestral(and yes you do originate from Africa) continent, because Ethiopians have straight hair, Southern Sudanese people have flawless skin, most Central and North Africans are tall. And each are just one example of people that share the characteristics that you value so much.</p>

25

<p>
[quote]
IMO, blacks are proportionately more obnoxious in public high/middle schools because their race has only been free for two generations.

[/quote]
Incorrect.</p>

26

<p>and mj93 when a person with the dark skin that both Black Americans and Black immigrants share walks into a room, what whites, Asians, or any other ethnicity sees is "black". For that first impression they don't wait to hear an accent.</p>

27

<p>This is what old school Black folk call "airing dirty laundry". I hope any Black young people who are reading this will find a college that lets them discuss these issues face to face, with access to professors that can shed some light in a helpful way. In the mean time, do not make it so easy to divide and conquer.</p>

28

<p>You can do so at Cornell University, <a href="http://www.cornell.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.cornell.edu&lt;/a>, so apply! :)</p>

29

<p>My dad went to Cornell, probably around 1950 something. He had completed his thesis while pursuing his phd in psychology, but was told it wasn't time for a black man to get his phd yet. Since then, both my husband and I have graduated fpm medical school (he's born in Jamaica, West Indies, me in Jamaica, Queens !), so no MAJOR chips on the shoulder, but I've got no problems with Affirmative Action.</p>

<p>P.S. I went to Howard.</p>

30

<p>lets shed more light, less heat: part of what people are arguing about here is the the difference between native born black people and immigrant black people --what the Nigerian academic john ogbu called the difference between voluntary and involuntary immigrants. the former come to the US with high expectations, want to be part of the system, have faith in education etc etc. the involuntary ones are those of us born here with all the baggage and despair engendered by America's treatment of our ancestors--something that is bound to elevate feelings of helplessness and alienatation from academics.</p>

<p>interestingly, ogbu found that that this voluntary/involuntary dynamic was the same in other societies too. long-term koreans in (hostile) japan were markedly inferior academically to koreans in korea. the former were involuntarily there, the latter were safe (voluntarily) at home. </p>

<p>that doesnt explain all the differences, but i think it explains a lot of them. after all, immigrants of many colors tend to do well academically simply because they are more driven and also becaue whatever school they are in in the US is often better than where they came from. if there are good schools to go to in one's neighborhood in the US, on the othr hand, the forces that be tend to see to it that few native born black americans get in --and i mean this on the K-12 level that prepares kids for college. (This certainly true in NYC where i have seen even top black american students shafted in the school selection process and abandon it, if they can afford to, for private schools.) </p>

<p>and lets not sterotype: there are high achieveing hardworking black americans. there are west indian drug dealers and african misogynists. lets look for the best among our brothers and sisters and work with that</p>

31

<p>Well...(as in what you say after the preacher speaks in church...smile).</p>

32

<p>There is only one way to settle this: stomp the yard.</p>

33

<p>whatisinaname,
That whole we are all black thing is only semi true. As far as cultures go we are completely different. Most of my friends are white and they aren't stupid they can tell the differences between an african and a black american. You probably don't know this but the reason most black people have BETTER hair and yes i said better is because majority of black americans are also part native american. Not because of white infiltration. By better i mean that we actually have hair. Which is one sign of a black american vs. african immigrant. I have met very few african immigrants with hair. Yes some of my ancestors from over 15 generations ago came from africa but i also have ancestors who were NATIVE american and in case you didn't know this about 90% of black americans do. Therefore at this point we are technically a different race who looks nothing like are ancestors besides for that SOME of us share similar skin colors. Even that isn't necessarily true because africans tend to be darker in shade than even a dark black american. I don't mean this in an offensive way but it tends to be the case. Yes big deal you could name different african countries that share similar traits but the point is these traits as a whole make up black americans. those traits as a whole DO NOT make up africans. Ask any black american and they can probably tell you that they don't think the black race and african race look similar. we really don't. i can glance and tell the diffence. I don't even need to talk to a person to be able to tell the difference. I don't care if i did the same thing as kenshisan. he completely demeaned my entire race and YES i consider BLACK AMERICANS my race. Our ancestors have been gone from africa so long that the ONLY thing i have in common with you is color. and i DO NOT want anything else in common. I'm perfectly fine if they'd change the terms to BLACK AMERICANS AND AFRICAN IMMIGRANTS. We are NOT the same nor do i wish we were. Or an i saddened when an african says that we aren't the same. thank god we aren't. i don't want to be african. im proud being a black american. I wouldn't have felt the need to say any of this if kenishan wouldn't have acted as if all blacks are ignorant stupid people. Has he never heard of Obama, Ms. Condalise Rice, Mr. Luther King, Tyra Banks, Oprah, or Rosa Parks. Does he know that a black american invented the traffic light or the cell phone. Wow these really sound like ignorant people. Every race has their stupid people who act out that doesn't mean a whole race is like that. I've never posted posts that are so harsh but he really ****ed me off acting as if black americans even wish to be associated with africans. He needs to get off his pedestal and realize he is wrong.</p>

34

<p>Heh, a lot of snide remarks and generalizations in this thread. Being "African"—parents are from Mali—there's been times where I've been frustrated with how we're perceived collectively. The superficiality and self-glorification particularly in rap music brushes off across the entire race. When making judgments on race, people aren't going to think beforehand, "Hm, well he's an African, not a Black-American!" Most "African" cultures are the complete opposite of the supposed "Black" media culture that's perpetuated. To have the latter used is a slap in the face. Just as many immigrant communities, there's pride that needs to be upheld. I guess that's why there's resentment against the "Black Americans": to have someone to blame.</p>

<p>I have a "weird" sounding name, no accent, although I speak "different". When I was younger, I was ridiculed by some of these "Black Americans", and I also befriended some. It wasn't really something of much concern. I considered them ignorant b/c on their surroundings- not on their skin. Right now, in HS, although a lot of the "Black Americans" I know are kind of obnoxious I guess, that's attributed to the media and these glorified mainstream a**holes- (e.g. - Lil' Wayne, Dipset, etc.) I myself had made a personal protest to not listen to mainstream rap. The manipulative power they have over the black community is astounding imo. They claim to speak for "us", yet it's only for their own gain.</p>

35

<p>wowzerz,</p>

<p>Bitter much? You're the same as Kenshinhan. Your post is filled with unnecessary generalizations of who "Black Americans" and "Africans" are.</p>

<p>" We are NOT the same nor do i wish we were. "</p>

<p>Tell me that doesn't sound like something a race supremacist would say. Not to say you are, but maybe you should read over what you wrote. Over the years, I've learned not to let petty classfications dictate anything inside. Perhaps you should too.</p>

36

<p>thank you, thesmiths. I can't even get mad at you, wowzer. You are just so out of touch with your roots and seems so angry about it. The fact that you insist that straight hair is "better" hair shows your insecurity with the natural looks of black people. What Africans do you see with "no hair"? Please learn to separate Africa and know that we do not all look the same. There are different regions that have different distinct looks. </p>

<p>I can tell that you just need to experience life and meet other people to realize that yes we are the same on the outside and that is only what the world cares about. And you are right that we are different we have different cultures, but we both came from the same place.</p>

<p>You do sound close race supremacist, so check yourself before you wreck your future. And also check your statistics on Native Americans.</p>

37

<p>As an African Immigrant(Nigerian, to be specific), I'd like to render an objective perspective on the issue. I've tried to avoid commenting on the debate for some time now but just can't suppress my opinion any longer. I suggest you guys read William Lynch's speech(you can google it or look it up on Wikipedia). Seeing as almost all previous posters seem to harbor a similar mentality as Willie Lynch was aiming for, I'd advise we all reevaluate our priorities. The presumption or conviction of a particular race being better than another merely based on the premise of stereotypes should be recanted immediately. Just as there are certain individuals in a particular race who embody desirable characteristics we look up to, there are also individuals in the same race that are scum. Among "Black-Americans", there are the Martin Luther Kings, Rosa Parks, Obamas, and even Stan O'neals(Head of Merrill Lynch), there are also the ignorant rappers who, in my opinion, contribute to the process of diminishing the intelligence of many inner city youths. Among Africans are the Wole Soyinkas, Ogbus and a plethora of other African scholars and business tycoons. On the other hand, as a Nigerian, I'm sure you've heard of 419ers.</p>

<p>In conclusion, I suggest we all cast away this condescending perception of each other because at the end of the day, WE ARE ALL BLACKS(whether your race has "better hair" or your race generalizes the other as the "rude and obnoxious one" doesn't matter.) and we need each other to move forward. IMO, the existence of Affirmative Action isn't something that we should be happy about or even view as a "perk" as whatisinaname stated earlier, it's a slap on the face of all blacks and we should all work collaboratively towards eradicating it.</p>

38

<p>thank you for that Penn_dreamer. I going to use it on my facebook too
This is what you buy into, wowzer?:
"Don't forget you must pitch the OLD black Male vs. the YOUNG black Male, and the YOUNG black Male against the OLD black male. You must use the DARK skin slaves vs. the LIGHT skin slaves, and the LIGHT skin slaves vs. the DARK skin slaves. You must use the FEMALE vs. the MALE. And the MALE vs. the FEMALE. You must also have you white servants and over- seers distrust all Blacks. But it is NECESSARY THAT YOUR SLAVES TRUST AND DEPEND ON US. THEY MUST LOVE, RESPECT AND TRUST ONLY US. Gentlemen, these kits are your keys to control. Use them. Have your wives and children use them, never miss an opportunity. IF USED INTENSELY FOR ONE YEAR, THE SLAVES THEMSELVES WILL REMAIN PERPETUALLY DISTRU****L. Thank you gentlemen." -Willie Lynch</p>

39

<p>Ahhh, so much hostility. :)</p>

<p>Now, wowzerz, you seem very angry but I feel your claims are irrelevant to the topic at hand and are not very well-founded.</p>

<p>The reason why I told the story about black-americans is because I felt I needed to explain why ivy league schools are unproportionatly admitting african immigrants or african-american kids to black-americans, considering the differences in their population. The reasoning behind my post was to explain some main points of this situation. This sums up my post, and what you should of taken from it.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>There are not enough high achieving black-american students TODAY, to fill ivy league schools.</p></li>
<li><p>The reason for this is because of their work ethic, ignorance, and attitude.</p></li>
<li><p>Ivy league schools might also have an elitist attitude and would rather admit an african-american/immigrant than a black because of how their is a general stigma of being black today because of their culture and how they act. Rap, guns, drugs, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>Other black people are influenced by the actions of black-americans negatively and thus they have made a stereotype that is hard to overcome even if you are educated. The stereotype unconsciously is held by adcom's whether they admit it or not when they are admitting people.</p></li>
<li><p>White people can tell the difference generally between a black-american and an african-american/immigrant. And many of their ideals of us are from the media and how black-americans act in public.</p></li>
<li><p>This has all resulted in the unproportionate admittance of black-americans to african-american/immigrants, relative to their population.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Now, I don't really give a DAMN, if you feel that black-americans have better hair or are prettier than african-americans/immigrants. (By the way, many of my aunts have long flowing jet-black hair and don't have a hint of native american in them) Or if they are obviously different in looks, as I can already tell the difference just by a glance just as you can. I don't care if black-americans are far removed from their roots. Or if they have native-american in them.(By the way I would like to know where you got the statistic that 90% of black-americans have native-american in them) I never said that you wanted to be grouped in with us or that we were very similar. And I DEFINITELY never said that there weren't high achieving black-americans or that every black-american was stupid. I just made some very well founded observations about the differences in culture and how it is affecting admittance into top schools. </p>

<p>Frankly I feel your posts have been irrelevant and don't address the topic at hand. And you have done little if anything at all to prove me wrong about what I have stated.</p>

<p>Now let me accentuate on some of the points I have made above.</p>

<p>There are DEFINITELY not ENOUGH (not none at all)high achieving black-americans today to fill up the ivy league or schools of that caliber without lowering the standards even further. This I feel you have to agree with me on because their have been multiple studies on the education level of black-americans and how it is unsatisfactory and never on par with their white or asian counterparts, especially relative to their population in America.</p>

<p>The reason I believe we have this situation is because of the black-american work ethic, their general education level, and because of their attitude among other things. I can't count how many times I have been in class with one of my black-american friends and everyone is doing work and they do theirs half-assed or not at all. In my school the term "its not thuggin" is very prevalent on the reason why they won't do something that is generally helpful to them intellectually. This contributes to their generally low intelligence level and literacy level and thus they reek of ignorance. The quote "if you want to hide it from a nigga put it in a book" has never rung truer with these people as the only book they read are the ones they are FORCED to read, and upon graduation,(if they even graduate) many of them never pick up a book again for the rest of their life). Many black-americans also are VERY rude, loud, and have a general disrespect to their teachers and anyone with authority. They get caught cheating on tests all the time in my school, are caught stealing all the time, come to school high, get in fights, and always get caught with weed in their lockers whenever a search is done.</p>

<p>Now I can't really blame this on economic factors because while some of them are poor, a lot of them are middle class or upper-middle class, and they also still hold the same attitude about education to a degree though not as much as their poorer counterparts. I feel it has more to deal with culture than anything else. </p>

<p>An example of this is that many of them consider graduating high school such a big deal, and a lot of them don't make a lot of plans after this. It was their lifetime accomplishment and nothing else is expected of them. Their african-immigrants/american counter parts on the other hand don't really place that much emphasis on graduating high school. This even plays into my life. My dad while happy about my graduation couldn't really give a damn that I graduated high school. He is more concerned about why I didn't have a 4.0 and wasn't valedictorian when I graduated. And this is how it is for many african-american/immigrants, and thus a great cultural difference. I can honestly say that I have never seen or heard this attitude among black-americans.</p>

<p>Ivy league schools also have an elitist attitude to a degree whether they want to admit it or not. And thus this can consciously or unconsciously affect their admission decisions. If you there were two high achieving applicants that accomplished the same things, who would you admit to your elitist school, Shaniqua Brown or Razina Antangana? Especially since some white people would consider the second name "exotic" or whatever it is white people do or think.</p>

<p>The black-american stereotype is hurting black people in general and is making it hard for us to get respect in academics or in our general life. This most indefinitely plays a factor into admittance.</p>

<p>And while white people may group us in general most of them that matter can tell the difference quite easily. </p>

<p>All of these above mentioned reasons are why I feel there is the current situation. Many top schools really don't have a choice if they want to maintain diversity but to recruit african/caribbean-americans/immigrants.</p>

<p>Now obviously not every black person is like what I mentioned above, but their is too high a percentage compared to other races of people that act this way. Many of the achievements of black-americans have been accomplished in the past or by the older generation, when education was important and fighting for what you believed for was too. Many africans I know have no problem with the older generation as they seem to have more sense and in general are more educated. They more have a problem with the ones 30 and below in which uneducation and bad manners run rampant. The black-americans of today have not accomplished nearly as much as their past counterparts and this can't be denied. The main reason for this is their culture and that obviously is having an effect on the admissions to top schools.</p>

40

<p>
[quote]
Among "Black-Americans", there are the Martin Luther Kings, Rosa Parks, Obamas, and even Stan O'neals(Head of Merrill Lynch), there are also the ignorant rappers who, in my opinion, contribute to the process of diminishing the intelligence of many inner city youths. Among Africans are the Wole Soyinkas, Ogbus and a plethora of other African scholars and business tycoons. On the other hand, as a Nigerian, I'm sure you've heard of 419ers.

[/quote]
Obama's father is African and his mother is white...</p>