<p>Will it be any use to send apps to some of the high ranked medschools if their average (matriculants) mcat and gpa are way out of range? Wouldn't it be just a waste of money and time by applying to such schools at all? Say for a student with 32 MCAT and 3.6 GPA from a lower ranked ivy school to even try schools with average matriculant's mcat (35) and gpa (3.8 or 3.9) ?? Any experience or knowledge you could share will be very much appreciated.</p>
<p>Unless you have some standout EC’s or are a URM, it’s going to be a waste of money applying with a 3.6/32 to elite med schools. 3.6/32 puts you right in range for mid tier med schools though.</p>
<p>Just as an FYI, no schools have average GPA of 3.9 and only a handful have a 3.8 average. See below:</p>
<p>Top average MCAT scores:</p>
<p>WUSL 36.5
Columbia 35.2
UM/UPenn 34.2
UCSF 34.0
Vanderbilt/Cornell 33.6
Harvard 33.2
Northwestern 33.1
UCSD/Wayne State/Yale 33.0</p>
<p>Top Average GPA Scores:</p>
<p>WUSL 3.83
Mayo/Harvard/USF/Baylor/UCSD 3.8
Columbia 3.79
Vanderbilt 3.78
UPenn/Pitt 3.77
Wayne State/UCSF/Emory 3.75
UM 3.72
Florida 3.71</p>
<p>NCG,
From the following list (in descending rank, USN), which ones (or from which one to which one) would you say are the ‘mid tier’ schools?</p>
<p>Harvard,
U.Penn,
Johns Hopkins,
WashU-SL,
Duke,
Stanford,
UCSF,
Yale,
U. Washington, Seattle,
Columbia,
U Mich,
U.Chicago,
UCLA,
U Pitt,
UCSD,
Vanderbilt,<br>
Cornell,
Mt Sinai,
Northwestern,
U. NC,
Emory,
Baylor,
U.Texas, SWMC-Dallas,
U.Virginia,
Case-Western Reserve,
Mayo Medical,
Brown U,
NYU,
Darthmouth,
Univ. of Rochester,
Boston Univ,
USC,
Ohio SU,
Albert Einstein,
U. Cincinnati,
Georgetown,
U.Florida,
U.Miami,
Wake Forest,
UB,
Stony Brook,
GWU,
Jefferson Medical,
Loyola U, Chicago,
Virginia Commonwealth,
SUNY Upstate,
SUNY Downstate,
Drexel,
Albany medical</p>
<p>^ I would say any one below (including) Brown, roughly speaking.</p>
<p>^I’d agree with that. Which is not to say you can’t apply to Harvard or JHU but unless the application is outstanding in some other way, 3.6/32 puts you squarely in that Boston U/Georgetown/Dartmouth kind of range.</p>
<p>jw, what is the source for your numbers, Kdog044? Those don’t look like MSAR numbers as I remember those numbers being much higher. The numbers you posted seem to underestimate the averages of many schools (Harvard with an average MCAT of 33?). </p>
<p>According to Northwestern’s (which is what I would consider a fringe top tier school) own website, their averages are 3.76, 34.8. I would venture that all other top 20 med schools have similar averages (with the exception of the UC’s).</p>
<p><a href=“How to Apply: MD Admissions: Feinberg School of Medicine: Northwestern University”>http://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/admissions/process/class-profile.html</a></p>
<p>Thank you for your responses. I collected this from SDN website – very rough, not precise and seem to be too high. But they are definitely higher than Kdog044’s numbers.</p>
<p>Harvard: 12-12-11 3.90
U.Penn: 12-13-11 3.90
Johns Hopkins: 13-12-11 3.90
WashU .SL: 13-13-11 3.90
Duke: 12-12-11 3.80
Stanford: 12-12-11 3.90
UCSF: 12-12-10 3.80
Yale: 13-12-11 3.90
U. Washington, Seattle: 11-10-10 3.70
Columbia: 12-12-11 3.80
U Mich: 13-12-11 3.80
U.Chicago: 12-13-11 3.90
UCLA: 12-12-10 3.80
U Pitt: 12-12-11 3.80
UCSD: 12-12-11 3.80
Vanderbilt: 12-12-11 3.90<br>
Cornell: 12-12-11 3.80
Mt Sinai: 12-12-11 3.80
Northwestern: 12-12-11 3.90
U. NC: 11-11-11 3.70
Emory: 12-12-11 3.80
Baylor: 12-12-11 3.90
U.Texas, SWMC-Dallas: 12-12-11 3.90
U.Virginia: 12-12-11 3.80
Case-Western Reserve: 12-12-11 3.80
Mayo Medical:
Brown U: 12-12-11 3.70
NYU: 12-12-11 3.80
Darthmouth: 12-12-11 3.80
Univ. of Rochester: 11-11-10 3.80
Boston Univ.: 11-11-10 3.80
USC: 12-11-10 3.70
Ohio SU: 12-11-11 3.80
Albert Einstein: 11-11-10 3.80
Georgetown: 11-11-10 3.80
U.Florida:
U.Miami:
Wake Forest: 11-10-10 3.80
UB: 11-11-10 3.70
Stony Brook: 11-11-10 3.70
GWU: 10-10-10 3.70
Jefferson Medical: 11-11-10 3.70
Loyola U, Chicago:
Virginia Commonwealth: 11-11-10 3.70
SUNY Upstate: 11-10-10 3.70
Drexel: 11-11-10 3.70
Albany medical: 11-11-10 3.60</p>
<p>I got the info from the MCAT website but it appears the information is a bit outdated. I looked up U-M’s info and it looks like the data was from 2004. :o</p>
<p>Their current profile lists the following:</p>
<p>Class average GPA: 3.78
Class average MCAT 11.72</p>
<p>Thanks for correcting me.</p>
<p>Here’s Harvard’s from their web site:</p>
<p>average GPA: 3.8
average MCAT scores by section
Verbal: 11.18
Physical Science: 12.39
Biological Science: 12.47</p>
<p>I wouldn’t trust anything other than MSAR for these stats, and I think NCG words it perfectly. Those numbers don’t automatically disqualify you from any med school, but it’s definitely something that needs to be compensated for with the rest of your app at a top school.</p>
<p>How is Tufts Medical School? Just wondering–I’m not thinking about med school as of now but I really want to know where Tufts University stands on this list!</p>
<p>“Class average MCAT 11.72” ??
You mean 3*11.72=35.16 ? This about matches (36/3.8)</p>
<p>NCG, if the SDN data are approximately correct, then the MCAt 32 is even lower than necessary for Darthmouth. As far as ‘standout EC’, I have no idea if his EC is a standout or just mediocre. I know he is spending way too busy schedule with school sports and a couple of programs. Wish there is some easy way to tell. [I’m inclined to think that his ECs are about average, not spectacular]</p>
<p>My general rule:</p>
<p>Schools ranked 1-25 on US News will have stats approx 3.8/35</p>
<p>Schools ranked from 25-45 will have stats approx 3.7/32</p>
<p>Schools ranked below that will be around 3.6/30</p>
<p>Obviously, there are exceptions to this and low-tier state schools in general can be far easier than low tier private schools to get into for in-state residents.</p>
<p>As someone who looks to be a middle of the road applicant, he should be applying within all 3 categories (maybe 2-3 top tier, 10 mid-tier, and a few low tier schools).</p>
<p>Of that list above (which is not all inclusive from the USNews research ranking), there are some OOS publics listed. I’m guessing that a number of them don’t accept many OOS students and could be a waste of time applying.</p>
<p>My son will likely be in the same boat this summer coming up with a SOM list. He has a 3.9 cum GPA (a couple of A-'s), a 4.0 BCMP GPA, and we’re expecting that his MCAT will be in the 30-34 range…based on practice tests and his ACT (which supposedly is some kind of indicator :shrugs: ). </p>
<p>If he scores in the 30-31 range, we’re guessing that his list might be different than if he scores in the 33-34 range.</p>
<p>We only have 2 instate SOMs, which he’ll definitely apply to, but after that…we’re not sure which OOS publics might accept an OOS student.</p>
<p>The OOS publics in VA have a good percentage (IS portion is mid 40s for UVA and 50s for VCWU) and NY has also a decent portion (IS is mid 70s, which is below most other states). Two IS SOMs are good, with your son’s stats, he shouldn’t have any difficulty.</p>
<p>Good for your son, 3.9 is excellent. Well, my son took MCAT late January – with about 3 weeks to prepare, his practices came out at 33, 36, 36, 33, 35, so I expected somewhere in the middle. very disappointed when I learned the score. He had 2370 SAT in one try. his test taking skill was his strength and GPA was his weakness throughout school. So was surprised when I learned the score, and thought maybe the practice tests are not a good indicator. He did have to spend the two weeks at school just before the test, coming home for the test for one day. we will follow NCG’s recom on the school distribution (at least that is what I will suggest to him).</p>
<p>Hey mom2–at least you have TWO in-state med schools. We have ONE!</p>
<p>D. was accepted to couple top 20s’, she was NOT invited to interviews at U of Mich / Chicago, waitlisted at Pitt. U of Mich actually completely ignored her application, did not hear from them at all, while Chicago sent rejection few hours after recieving her application fee. She had 3.98 / 35 with great number of long-lasting (over span of several years) Med. EC’s and other EC’s in area of personal interests, great leadership positions. You can drow your conclusions from her adn other people’s experiences.<br>
For MCAT estimation, on average, real MCAT is 2 points below the best practice MCAT score and within 2 points of ACT. There are exceptions, but it was true for my D’s MCAT score.</p>
<p>“Hey mom2–at least you have TWO in-state med schools. We have ONE!”</p>
<p>Yes, I guess we should be grateful… lol</p>
<p>Miami…thanks for the MCAT estimation.</p>
<p>Well, based upon my sample size of one–the rule of thumb was way off. MCAT score was pretty equivalent to her highest practice test and way higher than her ACT.</p>
<p>Guess I’ll just have to wait and see what my other data point looks like. (And it’s ll be interesting since her two ACT sittings varied by ±5 points.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I highly doubt there is a high correlation between ACT and MCAT scores. Just use the practice test average (maybe minus 1 point) as your estimated score.</p>
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<p>I’m not really even sure what a lower ranked Ivy is but get yourself a copy of the MSAR and if you’re between the 10th and 90th percentile for acceptance, give it a shot.</p>
<p>^ Get USNWR national college rank and the list of ivy league schools and you will know what I mean by that.</p>
<p>Just to follow up, son decided to apply next year. Thanks all for the comments and advices. Good luck to you or to your children.</p>