<p>Here are selective schools with the percent of white Americans. From IPEDS data. White Americans percent excludes international and non-white racial ethnic categories. No particular point being made here...just thought it might generate discussion. Is diversity a factor in your college decision? If so, how?</p>
<p>I am struck by the range.</p>
<p>83.1% Washington and Lee University
81.3% Gettysburg College
80.7% Wheaton College
80.5% Missouri University of Science and Technology
80.0% Bucknell University
78.0% University of Pittsburgh-Pittsburgh Campus
77.3% Dickinson College
77.2% Kettering University
77.2% Tulane University of Louisiana
76.9% University of Wisconsin-Madison
76.6% Kenyon College
75.3% Colorado School of Mines
75.0% SUNY College at Geneseo
75.0% Villanova University
74.0% Ohio State University-Main Campus
73.3% Colorado College
72.2% University of Notre Dame
72.0% Whitman College
71.3% United States Air Force Academy
71.3% Oberlin College
71.2% Denison University
71.1% Davidson College
70.8% United States Coast Guard Academy
70.8% University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
69.3% Lehigh University
69.2% Colgate University
67.6% Middlebury College
67.2% Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
67.2% Carleton College
67.1% Haverford College
66.5% University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
66.2% Macalester College
66.0% Lafayette College
65.7% Southern Methodist University
65.5% Trinity College
64.6% University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
64.6% United States Naval Academy
64.4% Bowdoin College
63.4% Hamilton College
62.5% Vanderbilt University
61.9% Vassar College
60.4% Colby College
60.3% Reed College
60.1% Barnard College
59.9% Georgetown University
59.4% George Washington University
59.2% Stevens Institute of Technology
59.2% University of Virginia-Main Campus
58.8% Boston College
58.6% College of William and Mary
58.0% Grinnell College
57.8% Williams College
57.0% Tufts University
56.5% Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus
55.9% University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
55.8% University of Richmond
55.7% University of Maryland-College Park
55.4% Northwestern University
55.3% Washington University in St Louis
54.8% University of Rochester
54.0% Harvey Mudd College
53.9% Occidental College
53.7% Case Western Reserve University
53.3% SUNY at Binghamton
52.1% Scripps College
51.7% Wesleyan University
50.1% Johns Hopkins University
50.0% Brandeis University
49.7% Northeastern University
48.8% Pitzer College
48.2% Princeton University
48.1% Boston University
47.3% Dartmouth College
47.2% Yale University
46.9% Duke University
46.2% Santa Clara University
45.7% University of Chicago
45.6% University of Pennsylvania
45.4% Brown University
45.1% Harvard University
44.9% Pomona College
44.7% Claremont McKenna College
44.1% University of Miami
44.1% Cornell University
43.8% Wellesley College
43.3% Swarthmore College
42.6% The University of Texas at Dallas
40.9% Carnegie Mellon University
40.8% Rice University
40.7% New York University
40.1% Amherst College
39.7% University of Southern California
39.6% Emory University
38.9% Columbia University in the City of New York
38.5% Illinois Institute of Technology
37.6% Stanford University
37.3% Stony Brook University
37.2% Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art
36.6% Massachusetts Institute of Technology
31.5% California Institute of Technology
29.7% Polytechnic Institute of New York University
29.6% University of California-Berkeley
29.5% University of California-Los Angeles</p>
<p>Part of it I would argue is due to geograpics and whether it is often attended by kids from that region (which demographics may be mostly white) or nationally known, with a diverse population. City schools tend to be more diverse. In addition California public schools like UCLA and UC Berkley, both top notch schools, have banned the use of race in their admissions process, which has led it to be filled by certain minority groups that are relatively strong academically.</p>
<p>For me, diversity is a factor. I want to meet all different types of people - and from all different types of cultures. Incidentally, I would be less comfortable at a school where 80% of students are like me, than one where diversity was split. This is not only important culturally, but socioeconomically as well. I would not be comfortable at a school where the majority are “preppy” and have an air of privilege. However, I come from the northeast where that is not uncommon, so I would not feel completely culture shocked, it’s just not what I’d want for my college experience to be like.</p>
<p>Why would you be struck by the range? Regional variations in the ethnic mix of the 18-24 year old population account for a big part of the differences.</p>
<p>For example, the US is 63% white (assuming you mean non-Hispanic; filtering it down by age would take more work, but you can try that if you want).
Pennsylvania is 79% white. Note Bucknell and Pitt.
California is 39% white. Note USC, Stanford, Caltech, and the UCs (although the Claremonts and Occidental are somewhat “whiter”).
New York (state) is 58% white, but New York (city) is 33% white. Compare the upstate schools like Geneseo and Binghamton with the New York (city) area schools like NYU, Columbia, Stony Brook, Cooper Union, and PINYU.</p>
<p>Also, what is your definition of “selective”? Pitt is in your list, but Penn State is not, for example. UT Austin is not present, but UT Dallas is.</p>
<p>Well, despite ucbalumnus’s weirdly combative comment (let’s not even quibble with the strange expectation that student populations that include many out-of-state students should align with the ethnic makeup of their respective states…), I thank you for collecting this data! It’s fascinating to me.</p>
<p>UCB, UCLA, and Caltech have a very high percent of Asian-Americans (about 35%). Other California schools do not (e.g. privates). NY Poly also has a high percent of Asian-Americans. </p>
<p>Interesting that all of the Ivies are in the 40-50% range of students who identify as white.</p>
<p>Most of these schools draw students nationwide and internationally. I am not sure the regional influence explains everything.</p>
<p>The racial/ethnic categories became more complicated in recent years. There has been a blurring of racial distinctions. Hispanics and Latinos can identify with their ethnicity or with Caucasian race.</p>
<p>I think some schools have eliminated race as an admissions criterion.</p>
<p>This data seems to come from dividing the number of domestic, white, non-Hispanic students by the total number of students. What it doesn’t do is first pull out the international student (all of whom, none of whom or some combination of whom could be minorities) or deal with the fact that schools are allowed to have a column in the CDS for “race and/or ethnicity unknown.” This methodology presumes that all international students and students who have not reported their race are minorities. This is highly unlikely.</p>
<p>As an example:
Colby is reported to have a 60.4 percent student body. This number matches the number of white, non-Hispanic students reported in their 2012-13 CDS (1,126) divided by their total student population (1,863). However, of that total 121 are international and 285 didn’t report a race. Although still imperfect, a more accurate way to come up with a percentage would be to subtract those numbers from the totals then do the calculation again. 1,126 divided by 1,457 (1,863-121-285) = 77.3 percent white.</p>
<p>In other words, this calculation make schools that don’t bother to collect race data on their students or who have high numbers of international students look more diverse, while campuses that have fewer international students and colleges that are rigorous about collecting data on race look less diverse.</p>
<p>It’s interesting to me. Three State U. of NY schools are listed. Two of them, Binghamton and Geneseo, are both upstate, not commuting distance to NYC. They are the most selective SUNYs. Binghamton–53.3%. Geneseo 75.0%. Big difference. Also listed (not as a SUNY although it is!) is Stony Brook. at 37.3%. It is accessible via the Long Island Railroad to NYC and commutable to eastern portions of the city, plus the Long Island suburbs which are much more diverse than the rest of the state. It’s about an hour’s drive from my house in Brooklyn. I know many first-generation immigrant parents in the city who will let their kids go to Stony Brook but no further.</p>
<p>I tried the same exercise as above with Dartmouth’s numbers. 47.3 percent white reported. Back out the international students and non-reporters and the number changes to 56.8. Amherst’s numbers change to 49.7. </p>
<p>Things are further complicated when you look at numbers for some of the schools reporting high percentages of white students. Wheaton seems to have totaled up the number of students known to be minorities, then assumed all other students, including non-reporters and international students are white. Their campus probably has more ethnic diversity that these numbers seem to suggest. </p>
<p>The bottom line for me is that I’m wary of self-reported numbers that don’t seem to follow a standard methodology.</p>
<p>Not too surprised to see W&L No. 1 on this list. The school tries but it has never been able to attract a diverse student body. I remember, 20+ years ago, my freshman class of 400 at W&L had 4 students who were not white. So I guess they are doing much better now, compared to then.</p>
<p>Not to beat a dead horse, but I think it’s much more useful to look at the raw data in the CDS. Are 90 percent of the minority students Asian? Are most listed as two or more races (a notoriously squishy category and one sometimes used by students without tribal affiliation trying to claim NA ancestry for admissions purposes)? What percentage of students are listed as having an unknown race?</p>
<p>Here are the Freshman classes for two peer schools. They are in the same state and attract the same types of students. Kids often apply to both. These are actual numbers from the two schools’ CDS’s for 2012-13.</p>
<p>School A
Nonresident aliens-36
Hispanic-35
Black or African American, non-Hispanic-12
White, non-Hispanic-293
American Indian or Alaska Native, non-Hispanic-0
Asian, non-Hispanic-27
Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander, non- Hispanic-0
Two or more races, non-Hispanic-28
Race and/or ethnicity unknown-62</p>
<p>TOTAL-493</p>
<p>School B
Nonresident aliens-32
Hispanic/Latino-37
Black or African American, non-Hispanic-39
White, non-Hispanic-342
American Indian or Alaska Native, non-Hispanic-0
Asian, non-Hispanic-30
Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander, non- Hispanic-1
Two or more races, non-Hispanic-18
Race and/or ethnicity unknown-1</p>
<p>TOTAL-500</p>
<p>Do the quick calculation and School A looks more diverse. It would appear to be 59.4 percent white to school B’s 68.4 percent white. But take a closer look at the numbers. School B has more Hispanic students, more Asian students and over three times more Black students than school A. Even taking into account school A’s higher number of biracial students it seems clear school B is more committed to racial diversity.</p>
<p>No, it’s not “clear”. Both schools have the same percentage of hispanic & asian, 7% & 6% respectively. Higher number of black students is not a litmus test for diversity.</p>
<p>Before making such a broad generalization, it would be prudent to look at several years of data. One year could be an outlier. Second, what we don’t is the location of the campuses in your example. If School A is small town rural, hours away from the nearest city, and School B is Big City urban, a case could be made that School A is doing okl wrt diversity commitment. Ad of course, we don’t have the financial aid knowledge of the schools. Does B meet full need, while A does not?</p>
<p>You’re right, I should have said, at least as committed to diversity.
I used these two schools because they are very similar in terms of demographics (both small cities in the same state) and they both meet full need. Neither gives merit, athletic or other non need based aid. They go back and forth in terms of their USNWR rankings. School A has deeper pockets but otherwise they’re very similar on paper.
My point was just that the numbers can be slanted by the inclusion or exclusion of certain data. I didn’t include the names of the schools because I didn’t want to make it a discussion about whether certain schools are more or less diverse. I did want to highlight how the numbers can be manipulated.</p>
<p>I would not be surprised if that were an unstated target for the colleges’ marketing purposes. Comments on these forums indicate that some students are uncomfortable with the idea of a school where the plurality racial or ethnic group is not white.</p>
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<p>Caltech is private (as is PINYU, which is now fully merged into NYU, so this may be the last year of separate data). Stanford, USC, and Harvey Mudd are all over 20% Asian.</p>
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<p>The public universities (even UCB, UCLA, etc.) still get most of their students from in-state. Even private universities have some regional bias in where their students come from, simply because more students in their regions know about them and target them for applications.</p>
<p>Perhaps being named after a well known CSA general (who was president of the school for a while) may give potential applicants a particular impression that non-white potential applicants may not be interested in, contributing to its recruiting difficulties in that area. According to <a href=“Washington and Lee University - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_and_Lee_University</a> , W&L (as its predecessor Liberty Hall) did enroll the first black student in US higher education in 1795, but did not enroll another until 1966.</p>
<p>Sue22 - The data are from the US Dept of Ed (IPEDS) which does have a detailed, standard methodology. The data are for full-time undergrads only. I did divide white/non-Hispanic by the total. No group was excluded from the total. I consider international students (non-resident aliens) to be part of “diversity”.</p>
<p>I think all schools are committed to diversity these days. Even W&L is 17% non-white or international. All colleges are diverse; the differences are a matter of degree. Even among white students from the US there is still gender, economic, and regional diversity. </p>
<p>I think the US overall is about 30% non-white or Hispanic/Latino. </p>
<p>I think some prospective students value diversity and some do not. Hence, the question at the beginning of this thread. I think the natural tendency is to prefer people who are like oneself and you have to be willing to get outside your comfort zone to learn from other cultures. On the other hand, minorities and international students are immersed in a white US born culture and many seem to primarily associate on campus with members of their own demographic.</p>
<p>^^of course, since this is a college-focused thread, the real number that is important is not the number (% ) of (18 or) 20 year olds in the total population by race/ethnicity, but the subset number/% of college-ready by race/ethnicity. </p>
<p>And to set the denominator even more accurately, of the number/% of HS grads who are not only college-ready, but who are competitive for selective college admissions by race/ethnicity (since the colleges on the OP’s list are selective).</p>