DD is a senior from rigorous public high school in N CA. She is student body president and has a few other time-intensive ECs where she is a leader (club supporting domestic violence victims and Club soccer and another volunteer org). She loves her leadership activities.
Took precalculus junior year and got a B. Had a A in sophomore math (Integrated math 3). Teacher and counselor advised her that AB Calc would be doable for her. Only one week in and she feels like she is drowning. Trying to have her stick it out in case this is a case of coming back from summer and needing to adjust. However, she will need to decide quickly whether to stay or transfer to Quantitative reasoning aka “senior math” as all AP Stats classes are full.
She is applying to a variety of schools (public in and out of state, private in and out of state) but UCD and UCSB are two UCs she has high on her list. Otherwise has 3.9 UW, 4.3 UC weighted GPA with 3 APs, 5 honors. Precalc is not considered honors.
I know it’s her choice, and her mental health matters most. Just worried she will have regrets if she drops too soon. She’s going to stick it out for another week. Looking for any striking opinions one way or another. Are her UCD hopes out the window if she’s not in an AP math class? She will be undeclared.
Part of the issue of waiting is potentially falling behind in the next class.
Sometimes you are right - a week in, if you focus, you can catch up. Other times, it really is too much. Both my kids WD their first college math class after AB.
I can’t answer - is the dream over but she may not have gotten in regardless. Others will weigh in.
While it’s nice to have hope, please don’t get fixated on one school. There’s lots of schools out there and more than one will suit her needs. Sounds like you are already building a list. And with her gpa, she’ll find a lot of merit money.
I think she needs to decide. She should go for after hours help, truly try to grasp. Clearly pre calc had some struggle so this may end up being a bit much. If she decides it’s not right, so be it.
There shouldn’t be - you must do this pressure for UC - because she will have many fine opportunities regardless. And sticking with it and struggling can make things worse - stress wise and gpa wise and more.
I think UCD wouldn’t be out of the question at all, but UCSB is a tougher admit. Her ECs will definitely help a lot though.
Have you looked up your school to see the number of admits at each UC? She should have some idea of her class rank and how that compares to the number of admits, since most top instate students apply to UCs.
We found that to be a fairly good predictor of admissions since the UCs specifically look at all applicants from a school and compare them (it was even better before the pandemic when they used SAT too, but still not bad for S23).
For example, you would only have a chance of getting into UCLA if you were in the top (say) 5%. However ECs are weighted very heavily, especially at top UCs, once your academics are in the right range: we had NMFs not get into UCLA or UCB (when slightly less strong students did) because their ECs were lacking. So for S23 (about top 25th percentile of the class), we knew he was in range for UCSC but his ECs were (very) lacking. He was waitlisted then got in off the waitlist, which is pretty much what we hoped for/expected.
And note that the UCs don’t care about mid year updates, so unless you are going to get a C or below, you aren’t risking much by taking a harder class. However there may be a more serious impact at other reach schools that do ask for it.
I have seen that data. Her school doesn’t rank students so we have no idea where she sits with regards to rank. Probably not top 5% but likely top 10-15%.
Anyway, if 10-15% is correct, that should be enough to make the comparison. If she’s in the range then her ECs are certainly good enough.
I would think about the rest of her list. If none of them need a mid year update, then the risk of continuing is relatively low. If a top choice does request one, then I would think more seriously about switching.
Will the college majors she may be interested in require calculus? If so, be aware that college calculus courses will cover material at a faster pace than high school calculus AB. Having to take calculus in college the first time after a year gap since precalculus may not have a good result if she finds high school calculus AB to be difficult.
College majors that commonly require calculus include any engineering, any science (including biology), economics, and business, although the latter two often accept an easier version for business majors. UCs and CSUs do not typically have calculus as a general education requirement for majors that do not require it, except for some of the residential colleges at UCSD.
What does UC consider “quantitative reasoning” at her high school to be (look up her high school on University of California A-G Course List )? Courses with that title listed there could be classified as either C (statistics), C (other advanced math), or G (elective math) (C or G are the A-G categories).
As you say, it is her call, but you’re obviously trying to help her find a balance with EC’s, courses and her mental health. Sticking it out for another week sounds reasonable to see how she does. Is she able to get help from her instructor? Is there a tutoring center on campus that can help?
If. after that, she is still struggling, I would advise my kid to drop down to the QR class, partly because senior year is tough enough (and it’s an obvious struggle), and partly because you state she will not be applying in a STEM field.
Anecdotally, our D23 was accepted at both the UC"s you mention and didn’t even take (Honors) Pre-Calc until her senior year, and she applied as a STEM major (although her balance of AP/Honors was more like 7/4).
The truth is no one can say for sure with the UC’s.
I’m not an AO, but I would not say she is out of UCD simply for not having an AP math course her senior year … hoping for the best for your daughter!
Thanks. The profile you showed is very different from the profile our Mmmmmm her high school publishes. There is no GPA breakdown given. I appreciate the input!
What is she interested in studying in college? Is she receiving any guidance from the teacher and/or counselor?
Can you share a little more about Quantitative Reasoning? Although she may refer to it as “senior math”, do you know what is covered in the course?
Remember, her UC GPA is already set. What you are considering is her level of rigor. What other advanced courses did she take?
It sounds like your daughter has a lot going for her and will, hopefully, be able to write compelling Personal Insight Questions. Spend some time watching the videos that UCSB posts on their YouTube channel. I found the counselor’s video on activities and awards to be helpful.
UCSB has three colleges - College of Engineering, College of Creative Studies and College of Letters and Science. COE and CCS are very small. L&S houses 90% of the majors (everything from Feminist Studies to Physics) and does not admit by major. It is very easy to change majors within L&S. In fact, the admissions website states that after a student applies, “A request for a change of major in the College of Letters and Science is guaranteed for freshman applicants (except for majors that require an audition)”
She is considering kinesiology, criminology, physiology/exercise science, maybe public health. At UCs, she would probably pick one of the interdisciplinary majors as many don’t offer kinesiology or exercise science. This is all subject to change as well. Definitely not engineering, math :).
She did receive guidance from her counselor and teacher last year. This year the teacher is encouraging her to stick it out. Her counselor has been switched to a new one who is out on leave so there is a substitute for the new counselor right now- not ideal. She has asked her but IMO, this counselor is just trying to stay above water and not very helpful for her particular concern.
She took Spanish 5AP, 2D art AP, Honors Ag Engineering, Honors English, American Lit Honors, AP Econ, Honors Spanish before AP Spanish and received As in all. Her sciences have been non-AP (other than Ag) and she has done well (As). Was not able to get into AP Chem due to impacted schedules.
I don’t know what is covered in Quantitative Reasoning. It qualifies for UCs as a “C” requirement in a-g listing.
We have looked at the UCSB You Tube series- very helpful!
Yes, some majors she is considering will require calc- this is my message to her. But I don’t want to see her stress all year long. ASB president is a huge job- she loves every minute of it. And I’m so incredibly proud of the work she puts into that role. We talked about needing balance, and will have to see how the next week or so goes.
My daughter was an exercise science major (in dpt program now). She took AP AB and BC calc in high school, plus AP stat, but I still think she had to take calc and stat in college. She made the mistake of not taking AP bio and AP chem in HS (just honors), plus she didn’t take any engineering. She powered through, but realized she should’ve thought past the getting into college mindset, and chose classes that would’ve prepared her better for college (thank goodness for tutors). And the tough colleges classes were easy compared to what she’s doing now.
My niece is a Kinesiology major and took AP Stats instead of AP Calculus Senior year. Accepted in 2 UC’s and all the CSU’s she applied. Took Calculus geared towards Life Science/ Biology majors and did fine in College but made use of the free tutoring offered.
One class will not make or break her application but helpful to have some Calculus background before taking College Calculus.
How long has the teacher taught at the school? If they are an established teacher, with a good reputation, I would tend to listen to them. Some AP teachers start the course on a strong note so that those who are not prepared can change into another course. If this teacher is doing that, and feels that your daughter should stick it out, that’s a promising
Exercise science may be just biology with appropriately chosen upper level biology electives when there is not a specific major for it. Biology or research oriented exercise science majors commonly do require calculus, although sometimes a version for biology majors is allowed.
Criminology may be a subarea of sociology when it is not its own major. Sociology usually does not require calculus, but sometimes a higher level of understanding of statistics (with calculus-based statistics) can be helpful in the various social sciences.
one resource that she might find useful is prof leonard on youtube.
He goes through material slowly and in great detail which might help …
Not sure if this is the topic being covered but you can find the right video.
