Keeping in mind that this was a St. Paul’s tradition not an Owen Labrie tradition. He just happened to get caught via an embarassed girl.
If it can be deemed to be “a tradition” it wasn’t a long standing “tradition” at all. Any alum 5 years out will likely tell you they weren’t aware of it. It fit the defense’s construct to spin it as something longstanding.
@Center, you keep making statements not so subtly putting the blame in the girl’s camp. The jury and the judge thought differently and they, unlike you, heard all the testimony and saw all the evidence. Since you have son I hope you are teaching him about both consent and the age of consent before he starts boarding school.
I’m amazed at the article posted above and Labrie’s blatant disregard for the rules placed upon him. I feel like he paints a bad picture for all our students and schools (or potential schools). He himself does appear to be a narcissist to me and many people will not read the backstory that he’s not some rich privileged kid and that he was there on considerable aid. I agree with @doschicos above and he’s responsible both in the eyes of the law and morally. He is not “manning up” and seems like a weasel in my opinion.
I read an interesting book called Guyland that is about how certain aspects of masculinity are encouraged and celebrated, and what kinds of consequences are the result. I actually heard about it from some teachers at SPS - the author came and spoke to the school faculty and administration as part of the effort to make cultural change after the Labrie event. I don’t think there is anything unusual about either Labrie or the school, unfortunately. For those who want to know more about gender relationships and how cultural norms affect both young men and young women, Guyland is worth checking out.
When I was in grad school I was biking home @ 2 am from bar-tending. A car came up with his lights outs and as they drove by they hit me with a baseball bat like I was some mail box on a rural route in Maine. About a week later while playing hoop, I was telling a Watertown cop the story that I got hit biking in Watertown at 2 am and his response was “What were you doing out at 2 am? Nothing good happens at 2 am” (I guess that is their definition of Watertown Strong)
As a father of both boys and girls. After I impress upon my boys about consent, I will equally impress upon my daughters not to put themselves in a vulnerable situation where decision making can get very foggy. It is about not being out at 2 am.
I am painfully familiar with the impact of a sexual assault on a daughter and agree with @laenen that staying out too late carries greater risks for a woman. Further, every parent should drill into their daughters the importance of never leaving a girlfriend behind. Getting separated from the pack is truly dangerous.
Girls need to show good judgment, but when they don’t it doesn’t mean that it’s ok to harm them. And sadly, even doing everything “right” isn’t a guarantee that a girl isn’t going to be taken advantage of.
Age of consent laws are in place to protect those whose judgement is still developing, among other reasons.
I guess we differ in our opinions, @laenen, as I think one should be able to ride their bike home at night without getting hit by a baseball bat and a teenaged girl should be able to hang out with a male classmate without being forced beyond her comfort level or part of some nefarious contest between a handful of upperclassmen. Yes, let’s encourage our daughters to minimize their risks but let’s not blame young women for what happens to them or let young men off the hook for their own actions.
“encourage our daughters to minimize their risks but let’s not blame young women for what happens to them or let young men off the hook for their own actions.” @doschicos - yes, agree completely.
@doschicos – I think we agree generally. However, just because I should be able to ride my bike anywhere anytime, doesn’t mean I can. One should always be cognizant of the risk they are putting themselves in. That is not a statement that victim is responsible.
I think whenever someone attempts to discuss that minimizing risk is an effective strategy not to be a victim, the “don’t blame the victim” card is played. It is not the same at all.
As an American, if I go to Syria and walk around, what are the odds that I will be starring in my first and last ISIS movie? And do I have any responsibility for my circumstance?
@doschicos the girl is just as culpable. She was a willing participant. He didn’t grab her off a bike at 2 am on a darrk path. Girls can cry rape and the male is instantly guilty. The senior salute is disgusting and Owen Labrie didn’t invent it. That is not my point. Girls going to a room in a fraternity house drunk out of her mind and then saying she was assaulted because she had sex with someone and didn’t want to and is now humiliated isn’t rape. The girl who fooled around with Labrie thought they were then in a relationship as evidenced by their emails post incident. When she realized that she was simply a notch in the bedpost or a name on the wall, she decided to cry rape . He may be arrogant and smug and any number of things but they doesn’t make him guilty. Just like a drunk girl walking through a park or being in a fraternity house at 2 am doesn’t make her deserve to be rated. BUT we live in an era that is very dangerous. Men are instantly guilty. As an attorney with many acquaintances in the legal profession neither I nor anyone I know think he was guilty of anything more than being stupid. That is why he was guilty of the bare minimum they could get him on.
@Center I don’t quite get where you find that the evidence indicates she thought they were in a relationship.
They went up there stone cold sober. They had differing, fluid ideas about what might happen in that room. She was 15, he was legally an adult. The damning evidence IMO was that once she protested, he was first out the door. That was acknowledged by the defense IIRC. Not exactly an indication of mutual affection and respect.
BTW, I’m an attorney and IMO the jury got it exactly right. I can’t muster any more sympathy for OL than I can for OJ. If you indeed feel that there are substantial numbers of women “crying rape” that is unfounded, I think you are absolutely incorrect and I would like to see your statistics to back that up.
@Center There’s not much I can say that is likely to bring the victim blaming thinking of you and your friend group into the year 2016. Thankfully, recent legal history and much public opinion is not on your side. Try to catch up as the world evolves around you.
As you prepare to send your own son off to live in New Hampshire, the state where Labrie committed and was tried for his crime, I suggest you educate your own son on how the laws are written in the state and how prosecutors, juries, and judges interpret those laws, rather than your own viewpoint.
I don’t say this to anybody but I’m secretly relieved that DS will be a minor till he goes to college so technically cannot be accused of the statutory crime.
DS could become a victim of the statutory crime, though. sigh.
@doschicos – clearly you disagree with Center’s opinion but why resort to the personal attack?
I don’t see any personal attack. I think @doschicos showed remarkable restraint.
I think, to all the young adults out there who are reading this forum, we need to appreciate that rape culture is a real issue that continues to exist. When discussing keep in mind that this is a public forum where what folks say reaches many beyond the conversation. It’s a very important discussion, take care.
I am beyond puzzled how you know exactly what this girl was thinking and what motivated her. She “thought they were in a relationship”? Really? According to whom? That isn’t what the e-mails said. Do you think it is fun to accuse someone of rape, to go through the process on the stage, to be humiliated and have strangers question your motives? Really if that is revenge for being a notch in someone’s bedpost then it seems pretty self-destructive. And, Labrie repeatedly said there was no penetration when there clearly was. So at a minimum he was a repeated liar.
Day schools & public schools just ignore it if the offense isn’t occuring on their grounds.
Boarding schools expel the student. Presto! Problem gone.
If anyone is wondering what exactly is the line between consented sex and non-statutory rape, I would like share link to an excellent educational video clip titled “Tea Consent.”