<p>“serial rapists are good at reading people and figuring out who the best targets are.”</p>
<p>So who is the best target, and why?</p>
<p>Ah- an obvious trick question, Hanna.
Anyone that gives examples of who and why the best targets are can be accused of being a serial rapist.</p>
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Or a victim blamer.</p>
<p>Are we really so paralyzed by the fear of victim blaming that we can’t even write a sentence with “victim” as the subject? Can you imagine how nonsensical this line of discussion would be, say, in response to somebody who was trying to sell you a burglar alarm system? “Why do you keep talking about me and my need to protect my home from burglars? Why aren’t you talking about the burglars more?”</p>
<p>Again, I think we need to strain ourselves to have more than one idea in our minds at one time: dealing with crime by dealing with both with criminals and victims.</p>
<p>Perhaps if we thought about the rapists more like wild beasts, or mosquitoes, or infectious agents, we could discuss ways for protecting oneself from them without so much difficulty.</p>
<p>Hunt,</p>
<p>I would fully expect a burglar alarm system salesman to victim blame and frame a conversation about burglary prevention to be about me. That is their goal. If someone whose agenda was not to profit off my fear was discussing how we could limit burglaries in the united states though, I would hope they would talk about what makes people burglars and how they go about their crimes.</p>
<p>To think that we should talk about burglary and rape the same though is part of the problem. Burglary does not carry anywhere close to the societal shame and damage that sexually based crimes do - and often part of rape culture is the attempt to equalize rape to pettier crimes. I’ve never been called “damaged goods” or my motivations or behavior questioned in the wake of a mugging. Someone whose house has been robbed can move to a new house, a rape victim can’t move to a new body.</p>
<p>My point isn’t that we can’t talk about victims, but that we have to talk about victims as victims, not as agents of their own victimization.</p>
<p>So even though you think rape is more damaging than burglary, you feel discomfort when somebody tries to tell people ways to avoid victimization?</p>
<p>That’s not what I said nor is it what I have been saying. What I am saying is we have to be cognizant of the ways we talk about rape and that we have to teach people the tactics rapists use so that they can avoid them without presenting them in a way that paints a picture that they played an active role in their victimization by not doing so. And this certainly has to happen until there is a culture change where the rape report rate is higher. This is a deeply entrenched societal issue that doesn’t exist for many other crimes. If the majority of rape victims filed reports (which would be a sign that tides have changed), then maybe we wouldn’t need to be so careful.</p>
<p>For example, the title of the article could have been “College Women: Rapists are using alcohol to target victims” or to make it closer in length to the original “College Women: Rapists Target Drunk Girls” not “College Women: Stop Drinking”</p>
<p>Frankly, I think it is very good news that the majority (perhaps vast majority) of rapes (on campus or off) are committed by serial rapists. It means that most men are not rapists. They don’t require more education to teach them not to rape (which would only normalize the crime.) </p>
<p>It seems that most rapists ply the territory where there are parties. The headline could just as well have been “College Women: Don’t Go to Parties”. Most women who are raped, its seems, did drink - but that may simply be a function of the fact that they went to parties. Haven’t seen evidence that drunken women are a special target. It’s possible, but I haven’t seen evidence for it. </p>
<p>The way to avoid victimization is to create a culture where serial rapists are caught and punished. I could come up with all kinds of ways to prevent victimization (carry a gun or a long hatpin or a machete openly, especially when going to a party), wear a large whistle around your neck at all times, put saltpeter into the drinks of all men you meet, etc., etc., wear a burka (doesn’t seem to work in large parts of the world), but the evidence for effectiveness is strongly lacking. It’s easy to think we know how to prevent women from becoming victims, but without evidence, we might be increasing risk rather than decreasing it. Serial rapists (like repeat murderers - of which there are very, very few) may not think like most men, and may see all these prevention techniques and may enjoy “rising to the challenge”. </p>
<p>Easiest way to avoid college rapists is to do college on-line.</p>
<p>^ much more likely to get raped by a family member; online college would make it worse.</p>
<p>^^“oh snap”</p>
<p>“serial rapists are good at reading people and figuring out who the best targets are.”</p>
<p>So who is the best target, and why? </p>
<hr>
<p>I would assume that the person whose demeanor screams out insecurity and lack of connection the loudest would be the easiest target.</p>
<p>Jonri, I’m only posting here to thank you for your very thoughtful and knowledgeable responses. I don’t think that warning young women not to drink to excess is victim blaming. It’s sound advice and it would be wonderful if it were heeded. What I do think is that it’s kind of a duh piece of advice, that it’s incomplete, that it fails to address the predictable and young person mistakes that many new college freshmen make, and mostly that it fails to address the very real issue of rape on college campuses. I appreciate reading the more comprehensive proposal jonri laid out in some detail.</p>
<p>Hmm…how about: “College Men: Serial Rapists Are Making You Look Bad.” I suppose you might also point out to the majority of college men that fear of rapists might be interfering with their efforts to obtain consensual sex. The serious point in this is that, if the problem is serial rapists, they are hiding among other men, who should do everything they can to avoid protecting them.</p>
<p>^I completely agree with that - and it is a shame that that kind of approach is rarely taken. In fact, when I was in high school and early college, I received sexual assault prevention training that essentially treated me as a future rapist needing to “see the light.” Later in college I went to a session that focused more on bystander intervention and treating me as an ally in the fight, not a future perp, and found it much more engaging, rewarding, and educational.</p>
<p>I believe someone in here already linked to the ted talk that discusses this concept:<a href=“http://www.ted.com/talks/jackson_katz_violence_against_women_it_s_a_men_s_issue.html[/url]”>http://www.ted.com/talks/jackson_katz_violence_against_women_it_s_a_men_s_issue.html</a></p>
<p>As he says in the video: “Calling gender violence a women’s issue is part of the problem, it gives a lot of men an excuse not to pay attention.”</p>
<p>A clever response to the Yoffe article: [College</a> Men: Stop Getting Drunk - The Cut](<a href=“http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/10/college-men-stop-getting-drunk.html]College”>College Men: Stop Getting Drunk)</p>
<p>Oops. posts 188, and 189, in their witty responses, must have misread the last sentence in post 187.
The sentence said “Easiest way to avoid college rapists …” It did not say “family rapists” or “all rapists”. It addressed only college rapists. So mini has essentially said- the easiest way to avoid college rapists is to avoid physically attending college. What may or may not happen to a person from someone other than by a college rapist wasn’t mentioned there.</p>
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<p>Not to mention that it is all too frequent to see/read about women who are in effect screaming at men. Angry women, as my boys will call it. When someone is screaming at you, it’s common nature to tune it out. </p>
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<p>absolutely, as has been posted a number of times not all men rape so why alienate men that could be part of the solution.</p>
<p>“So mini has essentially said- the easiest way to avoid college rapists is to avoid physically attending college.”</p>
<p>I also didn’t say “don’t attend college”. I said do college another way, if that’s a real concern.</p>
<p>Machetes might work.</p>
<p>Iwannabebrown. I appreciate your thinking and the way you are talking about how we talk about rape. </p>
<p>Your points are really excellent</p>
<p>Jonri: i did not misread the paper. Lisak’s email interview differs from the conclusions that can be drawn from that one paper. I did not see anywhere in there where he determined the actual number of rapes or attempted rapes on campus and came up with 60% committed by serial rapists. Clearly, he has done other research. In another interview he states:</p>
<p><<the most="" common="" rape="" is="" a="" non-stranger="" assault="" where="" the="" victim="" picked="" out="" by="" offender="" at="" party,="" bar.="" degree="" of="" acquaintance="" between="" them="" usually="" very,="" very="" incidental.="" it="" really="" just="" perpetrator="" finding="" particular="" individual="" who="" they’re="" going="" to="" target.="" and="" so="" if="" in="" bar,="" you’ve="" got="" predator="" he’s="" not="" look="" for="" sober="" intoxicated="" individual.="" fact,="" he’ll="" only="" but="" seems="" be="" doing="" outrageous="" things.="">></the></p>
<p>Lisak also states that he can tell quite quickly when going to a campus which frats or athletic groups are more likely to be the source of sexual victimization. If he can tell, why can’t the colleges? </p>
<p>The reason that I think it is important to understand what the data is actually telling us, is that it informs how to respond to the problem. If we focus all the effort on campus rape and yet the problem is bigger in high school, on spring break trips, or in the summer, we may be doing a real disservice to women.</p>
<p>I agree that a better title would have focused on rapists targetting drunk women, the reality is that all I have been reading, from Lisak himself and others, is that women who drink to excess are more likely to be victimized. Of course the goal is to stop the rapists.</p>
<p>As to why being a victim once puts women at risk at being a victim again, Lisak reports that some of his serial rapists raped the same woman more than once. Also, if a woman has a drinking problem she is more likely to be vulnerable again.</p>
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All they have to do is ask a few women on campus which frats are known as the most “rapey.” But they already know.</p>
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<p>I don’t think all freshman girls know the first 6 weeks of college. That’s one reason I think mutli-year dorms are a good idea.</p>