<p>OK, now I see where we differ. You are trying to discern "intent" and answer not the question that was asked, but the one that you think they should be asking. I believe that "intent" is an extremely difficult thing to figure out (maybe I've been a lawyer too long). If one can answer the question that's actually asked truthfully, that is acting with integrity. If the question asks about race/ethnicity and economic status, one should include both factors. But if the question asks only about race/ethnicity, one should consider only that factor in determining how to answer. To my mind, that is being truthful. If they didn't ask the right question, that is not the applicant's fault.</p>
<p>Besides, perhaps the discrimination that colleges seek to fight is not just economic, but also visual. A well-to-do black or Hispanic person is also subject to racism (see the term "driving while black"). Your interpretation of the colleges' "intent" may be off the mark.</p>
<p>I suggested asking colleges about their intent, which is right on the mark, and then answering the question correctly.</p>
<p>I am not sure about all of the lawyer-logic. I do know that if a parent asks a child if he or she did something, a child will sometimes answer the stated question to avoid punishment (while avoiding the meaning behind the question, which the child fully understands). This is typically considered lying, an innocent and possibly (if infrequent) endearing thing that little people pull in order to get around a consequence. I am not sure it is so endearing when it continues beyond, say, 10 or 11 or so. I am confident it would not be endearing in the college admissions process.</p>
<p>OK, we can agree to disagree. But I believe that Barak Obama's children can legitimately answer any racial question as "African-American", Jimmy Smits' children can answer "Hispanic", and Tiger Woods' children can pick and choose those racial backgrounds they want to highlight.</p>
<p>Thank you for taking my comments out of context.</p>
<p>It can be rather convenient to ignore statements like the following:</p>
<p>The OP clearly says that he is of Sephardic stock and has immediate family members which are part of a well-known Iberian (read: Hispanic) Sephardic lineage.</p>
<p>A lack of transparency coupled with the desire to maximize profits by any means necessary destroyed both Enron and Tyco. This same lack of transparency plagues college admissions every year when students try to play by the rules.</p>
<p>What is the college's intention, anyway? What kind of "Hispanics" are they recruiting, exactly? Hispanic is a culture which encompasses any group that has original Spanish extraction. SaveD is part of this label.</p>
<p>If one disagrees with the preferential treatment bestowed upon Black and Hispanic students, then one should proactively demonstrate by playing the game under the same rules that the creators devised, namely, using their language against them.</p>
<p>I see your point, Fabrizio, but I disagree. I come onto CC in order to learn about the college admissions process and also to support other people with an opinion if I feel I can give a decent one. When I comment on a post, I try to give the kind of advice I would want to receive, namely that which will help achieve success in the college admissions process. </p>
<p>While handling the race question the way you suggest in your last post may serve as some kind of protest, it will not safely support the admissions goals of an individual student (if their goal is a thick envelope). I think there are better ways to protest that with which you disagree than to guide a high school student down a potentially disasterous college admissions path. I do believe, however, that you should pursue change if you seek it (just in a way which is more constructive).</p>
<p>I sent an email to the admissions office at an elite university and asked them about the are-people-from-Spain-Hispanic? question. Admissions people are acutely aware of how ridiculously complex this question is, mostly due to how vague the term "Hispanic" is. It is very difficult to get admissions people to give a "yes" or "no" answer on this topic. They gave me a few vague sentences about respecting how the applicant views himself ethnically. My conclusion is that if you've got even a drop of blood in you that you can trace back to any country where Spanish is the main language, they will give you the benefit of the doubt. Because they don't give precise difinitions themselves, they can't condemn others for playing fast and loose with the definitions. Nobody knows better than admissions officers what a farce Affirmative Action is, and they know it makes the college look good if the Affirmative Action admits perform well in the class...so if you're above average among their applicants, and are almost certain to thrive academically, they seem to be more than willing pretend they didn't notice you were stretching the ethnic definitions and put you in the "underrepresented minority" column on their we-are-giving-a-helping-hand-to-the-downtrodden spreadsheets.</p>
<p>Once again Fabrizio, I have to respectfully disagree. Tourguide might be right in some instances, but the applicant might be taking a big risk in others. The thing I like best is that he called and asked that one school, which really solves the whole dilema if you do it school by school before filling out their apps. Then there is no issue at all, because you've bent over backwards to be honest. There would be no risk and no assumptions about individual adcom' s opinions on affirmative action.</p>
<p>I had a similar dilemma while applying to colleges. My mother is from New York but my father is from Argentina. He is a second-generation Argentinian and his grandparents were all from Poland. Thus, he does not look the slightest bit Hispanic, nor do I. When asked what my heritage is, I tell people Argentinian American because technically I am 50% of each but I always get arguments that I am not Argentinian if my family only lived there for 2 generations. The argument came up when I wished to use hispanic as my classification on my college apps. The problem is, I had traditionally used "white" to describe myself so I didn't want to start changing everything I filled out. But I like to think I am just as entitled to check off hispanic as I am to check off white.</p>
<p>I went to law school with a guy who had an ambiguous last name, blue eyes, and dirty blond hair, who had (according to a widespread rumor) listed himself as Hispanic on his application. In those days, they forwarded the names of admitted students who identified themselves as Hispanic to the La Raza student organization; according to the rumor, when the organization contacted him and asked him if he wanted to join, he told them he was Italian. </p>
<p>I can't say for certain that the rumor was true. I can confirm that it was widespread, and that he was not well-liked by his classmates. He spent most of his time hanging out with his undergraduate girlfriend. </p>
<p>I was present one day when a classmate informed him that one of her friends, who lived in another state, was under the impression that he was her fiance, and that if he didn't correct that impression soon, she felt duty-bound to her friend to do so herself.</p>
<p>Eventually, he went to work as an in-house attorney for a tobacco company.</p>
<p>My advice to the OP: your original message makes it sound like you believe that if you identify yourself as Hispanic in your application, you'll be gaming the system. If you decide that you want to be the guy who games the system, don't delude yourself into thinking that there won't be consequences.</p>