Ship versus Submarine Duty?

<p>Bill - A lot of different reasons made me want to get out of subs, so here’s just a few. While the crew was fantastic and my fellow officers were great, I didnt want to spend the rest of my career doing something that I wasn’t fully into. My wardroom was undermanned and I and was pretty much straight three section duty for my last half of my tour. When I wasnt on duty, I was either working long days or I underway, so pretty much I was never home. 100+ hour work weeks were pretty common and very draining. Fast attack subs also have a common problem of packing too many things to do into too few hours. Between all the various training requirements, maintenance, and all the other assorted things that came up, there was no time to really get a grasp on what needed to be done and plan for the future. Anytime anything unexpected arises, the ship turns into crisis mode because there simply isnt enough slack time to plan for the unexpected. This creates a very tense, hectic, and stressful work environment. Additionally, I got tired of being in an environment that judged your work ethic on how late you stayed at work, and an atmosphere of getting reamed out for any minor thing that went wrong.</p>

<p>I discovered the Engineering Duty Officer community when I was in the shipyard. Those guys always looked like they enjoyed their jobs and had all the same job satisfaction without all the pain. I figured that was probably the best way to go and maintain my connection to submarines and my sanity was to transfer to Engineering Duty.</p>

<p>

A great observation and easily could be the subject of an entire thread.</p>

<p>Additionally, I got tired of being in an environment that judged your work ethic on how late you stayed at work, and an atmosphere of getting reamed out for any minor thing that went wrong.</p>

<p>The civilian world can be similar; I don’t think this ever changes and is highly dependent on “the boss.”</p>

<p>So, for the benefit of those who might want to “volunteer” for sub service, based on your observations, what kind of person [what kinds of personality traits] would do well in subs? In the alternative, what kind of peson sh/ do everything possible to avoid sub service? Also, you might explain what the Engineering Duty Officer community is and what they do.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>Bill - you’re correct, the civilian world can be similar, but that was really the icing on the cake. Long story short, there was a section of time during the shipyard that was a bit of a lull for me and I took advantage of it and actually left work at the official close of business time. I got lectured by my boss about leaving “early”, but yet my division was the only one in the inspection that had zero deficiencies and I really didnt have any reason to be at work. Very frustrating.</p>

<p>Well there is no specific person who would do well in subs. I’ve known a lot of guys with a lot of different personality traits and success is just a factor of determination and hard work. Typically the guys who do the best are workaholics who dont mind being at work all day, sometimes for no reason. Guys who get their work done efficiently so they can go home at a reasonable hour are often viewed as slackers. I dont know why, it just is. Again, a lot of things vary based on the command climate as well. Bottom line is, there are a lot of variables and there is no “right” type of personality to go subs. It just takes a lot of hard work and in the end, you may be burned out like I was and not want to do a second round. </p>

<p>I’ve talked a lot about what’s bad about subs, but there’s also a lot of really cool things I got to do. I got to tear a ship apart completely in a shipyard and put it back together again. I got to drive a billion dollar ship on the surface at sunset and have a cigar and see dolphins jumping across the bow like in the movies. I got to operate a nuclear power plant. I got to operate deeper underwater than most people will ever go. I got to do several emergency blows. Ever get to people watch on cruise ships and nobody knows you’re there? That’s pretty fun. </p>

<p>I dont think anybody should make a decision to go subs off of other people’s experiences, but really they have to find out for themselves. I’d recommend that people try it and see if they like it. If they dont, there’s plenty of other things to do in the Navy. If they decide to get out of the Navy, they’ll have a great resume and have a lot of skills that a lot of people dont have. </p>

<p>Engineering Duty Officer is basically maintenance and acquisition of ships and subs. They’re the guys in uniform at shipyards, both public and private, who basically plan out the work schedules and coordinate with various groups to get a ship in, out, and back to the fleet. They also work in the program offices in DC and control the money for new ship design, procurement, and maintenance. That’s the bulk of the work, but they also have some other sub specialties like weapons/combat systems and also salvage diving.</p>

<p>Fast Attack sub community appear to have very little time afforded to a personal life. I remember spending my entire 4 yrs at CGA never seeing my USNA grad brother who was only a 15 min walk down the hill to his sub. </p>

<p>He never got a break even in port. I don’t know if they do blue and gold on fast attacks now but they didn’t back then. The bottom line as ASW mentioned is that when your not U/W your working aboard the sub.</p>

<p>cga- that’s correct, no blue and gold for fast attacks. One ship, one crew, one screw… literally. SSGNs have dual crew though.</p>

<p>in the context of this discuission, what is blue and gold time?</p>

<p>I would defer this question to ASW or any other submariner but there are two crews (B & G). The crews are a mirror reflection of each other. When one crew goes ashore the other steps in to replace. I don’t know the specifics of split time between the two crews but I would venture say that they are given equal(as best can be) time U/W.</p>

<p>I dont really know too much about it since I was fast attack other than the fact that there’s two crews and they alternate who owns the boat for 6 months at a time. This includes maintenance and underway time. It’s primarily on SSBN’s so they can maximize their operational time, but the SSGNs are doing it too for the same reason. It makes life a lot better from what I hear because you can knock out most of your training requirements when you’re in the off crew. It’s also 6 months you’re guaranteed to go home and sleep in your own bed at night which also is pretty nice.</p>

<p>This blogger gives an excellent rundown on today’s modern submarines. The Navy cooperated with his research. This article has several videos embedded. Even I learned a few things. But, then again, I was an aviator. What the hell do I know about a submarine?</p>

<p>For one - why would submariners need to wear camouflage? :)</p>

<p>[Inside</a> the world’s most advanced submarine | Geek Gestalt - CNET News](<a href=“http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20010868-52.html]Inside”>http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20010868-52.html)</p>

<p>I don’t know about the cammies. I’m still wondering what happened to dungarees? :-)</p>

<p>The precursor to bellbottoms and platforms maybe!
Soulllllllltrain & hootenanny, baby!</p>

<p>I think I’ve got the beginnings of another classic poetic rhyme, Bill …</p>

<p>Dungarees, part of things Navy
Bellbottoms and platforms, maybe
Soulllltrain & hoooottenanny, baby
Submarines, nothing but gravy</p>

<p>Submarine food is nothing but the best
It has to be better than the rest
because staring at green screens all day
Can make one in a nervous way</p>

<p>I’m saving this for our next SubVBets meeting.
However I will give the author due credit!</p>