Shocking: More MIT engineering students now actually want to work as engineers

<p>*Like nearly 30% of Massachusetts Institute of Technology graduates in recent years, Ted Fernandez set his sights on finance. Though he majored in materials science and engineering, he was wowed by tales of excitement from friends who went to Wall Street.</p>

<p>But when he stopped by an investment bank's booth at a job fair a year ago, it was eerily empty. The booth belonged to Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., and the date was Sept. 18, three days after the 158-year-old bank filed for bankruptcy. Now Mr. Fernandez, 22 years old, is getting a master's in engineering at M.I.T. and aiming for a career in solar-power technology.</p>

<p>"Undoubtedly, I would have gone into finance if the financial meltdown hadn't occurred," he says. "Now I won't make as much money, but I can go home at night and feel good about what I do. That's worth more than any amount of money."</p>

<p>...Even a modest of shift of talent could have an effect on society. When smart people become entrepreneurs, "they improve technology in the line of business they pursue, and, as a result, productivity and income grow," said a study by economists Kevin M. Murphy, Robert W. Vishny and Andrei Schleifer in 1990. By contrast, they said, allocation of talent to professions such as finance and law -- where returns come from distribution of wealth from others rather than wealth creation -- leads to lower productivity growth, fewer technological opportunities and slower economic growth.
"Some professions are socially more useful than others, even if they are not as well compensated," the economists said. *</p>

<p>As</a> Riches Fade, So Does Finance's Allure - WSJ.com</p>

<p>Don’t believe the hype. </p>

<p>Guess where the biggest electronics market in the world is. How about the largest internet market?</p>

<p>^Asia? I dunno.</p>

<p>^no…it is still the USA, at least in terms of $ value</p>

<p>beware of asia thgh</p>

<p>So no MIT grads are the saviors of the economy? ok…</p>

<p>All the MIT engineers that I know who actually do engineering are pretty bright… at least that is what they tell me. ;)</p>

<p>Did my eyes rolls in my head loud enough for you guys to hear them?</p>

<p>Lacero if you don’t like engineering then go on some other site. But F off this one and in 10 years remind me to laugh at you when I’m in my big house.</p>

<p>

LOL… we’re not paid that high. Most of the engineers that I know that have been working for 10ish years only make $100ish k, and they don’t have big houses either… we’re not that rich…</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/268443-mit-really-engineering-school.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/268443-mit-really-engineering-school.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/opinion/27friedman.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/opinion/27friedman.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>don’t mind me. i’ll just be over in my corner gloating. : )</p>

<p>Finance/consulting firms want to recruit smart and sharp problem solvers so naturally they will gravitate towards engineering majors and other science/tech schools. </p>

<p>I think MIT leans a little a bit more towards finance/consulting to do it’s close proximity to Harvard and New York/Boston, major epicenters for the financial and consulting industries.</p>

<p>Also I’m curious as to how they define consulting–technical consulting is still very much engineering.</p>

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<p>So is the implication that engineering firms don’t really want to recruit sharp problem solvers? I would think that every company would want to recruit them.</p>

<p>Seems to me that the true difference is that while all companies desire sharp problem solvers, finance/consulting firms back those desires with higher pay. Engineering firms, in other words, want bargains - they want sharp problem solvers, but don’t really want to pay for them. Engineers, understandably, don’t want to be bargains. </p>

<p>What I’ve found so strikingly bizarre is that those engineering firms who refuse to pay higher salaries to engineers in the name of cost control are often times the very same firms who have no problem lavishing enormous fees for consulting and banking services. I know many people working at consulting and investment banking firms who extracted many millions in fees from clients in the domestic auto industry who have suffered enormous financial strain in the last decade, and I can’t help but think that if they had spent less on external strategy consulting services and financial engineering wizardry and more on building superior technology and product development, they would be better off. </p>

<p>The counterargument would be that if they had not spent so much on consulting and banking services, they would be even worse off, but I can hardly see how that would be possible considering the ongoing convulsion of bankruptcies, restructurings, and bailouts. Yet even a bankruptcy and the accompanying restructuring represents a lucrative opportunity for the consultants and bankers, while all of the employees of the bankrupt firm, engineers included, get crushed.</p>

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<ul>
<li>a million</li>
</ul>

<p>agreeagreeagreeagree</p>

<p>Also, not basing their entire livelihood on SUV sales would have helped as well.</p>

<p>First about consulting—there really needs to be a break down about the specific industries or scope of consulting. Consulting is such a general term that it can encompass anything from management consulting (McKinsey, BCG, Bain), strategic (Deloite or Accenture) to technical consulting (DNV, MPR Associates or Exponent). Of course when we think of the high end consulting, we think of the management consultants but keep in mind that the work Exponent or MPR Associates do are very much engineering. </p>

<p>Anyway, on the perceived boons and benefits of the services, it’s a little more complex. I’d argue that bankers provide a service—yes a middle man service that wouldn’t exist in an ideal integrated company but never the less a service. Specifically within restructuring or M&A, few companies have their own dedicated staff that can locate lines of credit/investors, secure their financial assets/stability and then bring a company to IPO at the highest price possible. Sure a company could staff a group 24/7 but since restructuring or merger issues are singular events, it’s cheaper just to shell a tiny cut of a massive financial deal. </p>

<p>With consulting the line is much fuzzier—consultants are just a second opinion and a recommendation. Some companies swear by it—when working with a major oil-company, it was much more efficient to shell out the money to get a quick solution for a staffing issue rather than deal with the incompetent internal employees. Others companies see them as just power point monkeys. My point is that consultants at most can only give a recommendation. I remember one experience (someone close to me) who was staffed to work on a marketing/supply issues for one of the major automaker. The conclusion of the study was that a shift was needed towards other models and efficiency but the senior client managers rejected it.</p>

<p>To be fair, I never said that the world should not have any external financial or consulting service firms at all. I can certainly agree that some of them do offer some value, for example, in terms of providing financial intermediation services or potentially providing key knowledge transfer and managerial innovation across industries. </p>

<p>However, the question is regarding exactly how much value do consulting and financial services firms add and whether it justifies the nose-bleed fees they charge. As evidenced by the financial crash, much of the ‘innovation’ that the banks embarked upon in the last decade consisted of synthesizing financial products, the behavior of which nobody really understood, including the banks themselves. Elite consulting and banking firms are also notorious for employing and unleashing upon clients fresh graduates who often times not only lack work experience within the industry in which they are now supposedly providing advisory or financial expertise, they may lack work experience of any kind altogether.</p>

<p>Consider the words of Matthew Stewart, formerly of BCG.</p>

<p>*During the seven years that I worked as a management consultant, I spent a lot of time trying to look older than I was. I became pretty good at furrowing my brow and putting on somber expressions. Those who saw through my disguise assumed I made up for my youth with a fabulous education in management. They were wrong about that. I don’t have an M.B.A. I have a doctoral degree in philosophy—nineteenth-century German philosophy, to be precise. Before I took a job telling managers of large corporations things that they arguably should have known already, my work experience was limited to part-time gigs tutoring surly undergraduates in the ways of Hegel and Nietzsche and to a handful of summer jobs, mostly in the less appetizing ends of the fast-food industry.</p>

<p>The strange thing about my utter lack of education in management was that it didn’t seem to matter. As a principal and founding partner of a consulting firm that eventually grew to 600 employees, I interviewed, hired, and worked alongside hundreds of business-school graduates, and the impression I formed of the M.B.A. experience was that it involved taking two years out of your life and going deeply into debt, all for the sake of learning how to keep a straight face while using phrases like “out-of-the-box thinking,” “win-win situation,” and “core competencies*</p>

<p>[The</a> Management Myth - The Atlantic (June 2006)](<a href=“http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200606/stewart-business]The”>The Management Myth - The Atlantic)</p>

<p>Consider the recollections of Michael Lewis, formerly of Saloman Brothers (now Citi), and author of Liar’s Poker and Moneyball.</p>

<p>*To this day, the willingness of a Wall Street investment bank to pay me hundreds of thousands of dollars to dispense investment advice to grownups remains a mystery to me. I was 24 years old, with no experience of, or particular interest in, guessing which stocks and bonds would rise and which would fall. The essential function of Wall Street is to allocate capital—to decide who should get it and who should not. Believe me when I tell you that I hadn’t the first clue.</p>

<p>I’d never taken an accounting course, never run a business, never even had savings of my own to manage. I stumbled into a job at Salomon Brothers in 1985 and stumbled out much richer three years later, and even though I wrote a book about the experience, the whole thing still strikes me as preposterous—which is one of the reasons the money was so easy to walk away from. I figured the situation was unsustainable. Sooner rather than later, someone was going to identify me, along with a lot of people more or less like me, as a fraud. Sooner rather than later, there would come a Great Reckoning when Wall Street would wake up and hundreds if not thousands of young people like me, who had no business making huge bets with other people’s money, would be expelled from finance.

In the two decades since then, I had been waiting for the end of Wall Street. The outrageous bonuses, the slender returns to shareholders, the never-ending scandals, the bursting of the internet bubble, the crisis following the collapse of Long-Term Capital Management: Over and over again, the big Wall Street investment banks would be, in some narrow way, discredited. Yet they just kept on growing, along with the sums of money that they doled out to 26-year-olds to perform tasks of no obvious social utility. The rebellion by American youth against the money culture never happened. Why bother to overturn your parents’ world when you can buy it, slice it up into tranches, and sell off the pieces?*</p>

<p>[The</a> End - News Markets - Portfolio.com](<a href=“http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom/]The”>http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom/)</p>

<p>Hence, it begs the question, why are companies requesting high-level managerial advice from somebody with no actual work experience and whose expertise consists of a PhD in German philosophy - and paying $500k a year for the privilege (as was BCG’s bill-rate for Stewart)? You could probably hire the entire philosophy department at many schools for that sort of largesse. Similarly, why are clients entrusting their assets to a guy like Lewis who had never even had any personal savings of his own to manage? Exactly how much value did they really add in their old jobs?</p>

<p>Now, to be fair, one possible counterargument is that the value that consultants and bankers such as Stewart and Lewis provide may stem not from their individual expertise relevant to the task (of which they freely admitted they had none), but rather to the institutional support from their employers. Maybe BCG provided Stewart with an excellent training system and institutional knowledge base by which Stewart quickly developed useful tools with which he indeed provided value to his clients that justified his high bill-rate. Maybe Saloman Brothers really did have an excellent risk management and valuation system with which Lewis could discover profitable opportunities for his clients, regardless of his lack of knowledge of finance. Maybe. But if it’s then really the system and not the individuals, then that begs the question: why pay those individuals so much? Stewart was paid $75k a year to start, an impressive sum at the time (in the 90’s) for somebody with a PhD in philosophy, and more than many full professors of philosophy are paid even today. Lewis was paid hundreds of thousands of 1980’s dollars for reasons he still has yet to fathom. If no real expertise is truly needed for those jobs, and all of the value is derived from the consulting/banking firm itself, then the employees should be paid far less. If BCG can pick up any reasonably smart and presentable guy off the street and train him up to be as credible of a consultant as Stewart was, then why don’t I just do that while paying that guy an average wage? </p>

<p>But at any rate, the bottom line is that as long as consulting and (especially) banking firms pay so well, the best and most ambitious students are going to want to work there rather than at regular companies. The finance industry may be sundered now, but if and when it ever does recover - which is probably just a matter of time - many of the best MIT engineering students will take it in lieu of engineering jobs. </p>

<p>The irony is that those firms will end up paying those students anyway. The only question is whether they pay them directly by hiring them onto the payroll, or indirectly through fees that the consulting and banking firms who those students hire into. The major difference is that those fees are padded at gross margins in the multiples to account for overhead and profit (i.e. BCG paid Stewart $75k a year, but billed him out at $500k a year). </p>

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<p>That begs the question - why are you engaging in restructuring or M&A in the first place? Often times, it’s because your product portfolio is lacking or, especially in the case of restructuring, your financial performance has been subpar. If you had been developing better products, you probably wouldn’t need to restructure or merge. </p>

<p>But more importantly, restructuring and M&A are fee-generating businesses, which means that the financial services firms are paid regardless of the worthiness of the transaction in question. You may benefit from a restructure or merger, or you may suffer, but the advisory bank is paid either way. That goes double for an M&A: both the buy-side and the sell-side advisors are paid regardless of the viability of the merged/acquired unit. </p>

<p>What would make far more sense to me is if the investment banks were paid in the form of restricted stock or hybrid security contingent upon the future success of the transaction, so that if the transaction later sours, they should be paid less. However, as it stands, advisory fees are paid in cash, which means they have every incentive to promote every possible deal, however unworthy it may be. When Daimler acquired Chrysler, a transaction which all parties now agree was an unmitigated disaster, the bankers were all paid in cash and they’re not giving any of it back. </p>

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<p>But they don’t really do that either. Numerous academic studies have confirmed that most newly IPO’d companies leave substantial capital on the table. Heck, most Ibanks will attempt to make IPO equity ‘pop’ on the first day of trading - and clients will acquiesce - but that’s actually terrible for the client as an IPO pop represents funding that could have been allocated to the client, but is instead being pocketed by first-day traders (which usually includes the Ibank itself). *What a client should actually want is the stock price to actually drop from the IPO price because that means that you garnered the maximum capital possible, but that’s somehow considered to be embarrassing.}</p>

<p>Now, don’t get me wrong. I agree that if Ibanks actually accomplished all of the goals they are supposed to, then maybe they would be worth their high fees. But they don’t. IBankers seem to be experts in enriching themselves at the expense of their clients. To paraphrase an old joke, I can see the yachts of the bankers, but where are the yachts of their clients? </p>

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<p>Which begs the obvious question: why doesn’t the company just simply fire the incompetent internal employees and replace them with top people? It’s hard to believe that that would be more expensive than engaging high-priced consultants. </p>

<p>Or even better, why even hire incompetent people in the first place? </p>

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<p>Yet the consulting firm was surely paid anyway. So why did the company even engage them at all? Why pay for advice you’re not actually going to take? </p>

<p>But again, at the end of the day, as long as consultants are paid so well despite often times not having any discernable expertise (reference Stewart above), people are going to continue to want to be consultants.</p>

<p>Wow, I am kind of shocked that nobody has jumped in to counter this argument. Surely, on a site with so many people interested in banking and consulting somebody would want to offer their viewpoint???</p>

<p>I pretty much agree with everything that sakky said here - just shocked that people aren’t trying to make an argument for the jobs they so frequently ask how to try to get into, work tirelessly for the grades to get into, and argue time and time again why prestige is so important for an engineering school.</p>

<p>Investment bank fees vary from firm to firm–most however charge an initial retainer fee and THEN negotiate a larger transactional fee after the transaction takes place. In either case the transactional fees are heavily negotiated by lawyers on both the firm and client side. Banks avoid being paid in stock to remain neutral and more importantly to ensure there is a Chinese Wall against insider trading. </p>

<p>Another point to make is that competition is fierce among the financial service industry and reputation is everything–a big company can easily walk out of a deal and pick up a competitor if they don’t like the way things are going. Thus companies will pay higher for reputable and experienced firm. For example, Goldman Sachs has an internal proving criteria to establish sources of credit that are financially sound and therefore won’t expose a client to more risk. </p>

<p>Consulting follows the same sentiments. </p>

<p>Finally one clarification with regards to salaries of consultants and bankers. Consultant salaries, in my opinion, aren’t that inflated compared to engineering salaries, especially when you consider job conditions. I received offers to work with a few of the aforementioned firms and it was a 60-70k base + a performance bonus. Bankers might get a 60-80k base + a larger bonus (.5-1 * base salary). </p>

<p>One thing you need to factor in that bankers/consultants work hours WAY beyond what is expected of the average entry level engineer. An IBD analyst can work 60-100 hours a week and many elite consulting firms have the same hour </p>

<p>Another factor is that these industries have low retention rates, it is very common for IBD analysts to burn out after 1-3 years and then exit. Consulting at the elite firms work the same way, many go in to get the experience to put on their resume and then jettison off. Compare this to the average engineering company where most new hires are expected to stay for a great deal of their professional career. </p>

<p>Are these salaries higher than the average engineers? Yes.
Are they warranted? I can’t make that point engineers and bankers are paid whatever the market allows them to be paid.</p>

<p>When I was interned at a major big oil company, my FT offer was around 80k with a very generous signing bonus–all this with just 3 “months” of internship experience. While this sum would be less than a IBD analyst BUT I was expected to work 40 hours a week not 100 hours.</p>

<p>My point is that most of the entry level salaries reflect the lifestyle associated with the job. My friends that work as IBD analysts have no social life what so ever and are chained to their beepers–one tried to visit me for a weekend and midway through his flight he got a call back and had to return ASAP. </p>

<p>Back to consulting–as I said before they are just hired brains to give a second opinion. Why didn’t the company listen to their advice? I don’t know but working in the industry, especially the oil and gas, I know first hand that companies often make decisions that don’t really make sense. For example some companies will let the million dollar a year lease dry up on a plot and then renew it when they could just drill a similar priced exploratory well. </p>

<p>Why do companies hire incompetent people? It isn’t that they are looking specifically for stupid people but most companies don’t have the drastic perform or leave mentality. Back when oil was high, a "certain " major oil company hired as many people as they could and now that oil is low, they can’t fire those new hires in favor of better qualified candidates now. It might be an anomaly within the oil and gas industry but I know first hand of many older/aging employees who simply don’t give a damn but know that the company won’t fire them do to the “Big Oil will take care of you” mentality.</p>

<p>Compare this to financial/consulting firms–at McKinsey if you aren’t at a certain position with X # of years you WILL be fired.</p>

<p>Anyway–I do agree that the world DOES need more engineers rather than wall street denizens, just as the world needs MORE physicians and researchers rather than rock stars. However like it or not these salaries are by products of the markets. If a professor could fill a stadium with students willing to pay 150$ a seat then his salary will reflect it.</p>

<p>I wanted to add some further points on the salary side of things. </p>

<p>From the WSO Compensation Database:</p>

<p>[WallStreetOasis.com</a> - NEW 2009 Compensation Database | WallStreetOasis.com](<a href=“http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/page/wallstreetoasiscom-new-2009-compensation-database]WallStreetOasis.com”>http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/page/wallstreetoasiscom-new-2009-compensation-database)</p>

<p>You’ll see that 3rd year analysts earn around 140k which by all no means is a small amount of money but once again the toll would be 3 years of insane hours. As I said before, in my experience some big-oil companies would pay 70-90k and expect 40-50 hours a week. If I worked the same comparable hours as an entry level analyst and got my overtime, the salaries would come out the same.</p>

<p>Of course if I ever make it to higher levels, the salary discrepancies would be vast but once again I wouldn’t want to go down that long path with the associated hours. </p>

<p>This is specific for the banking field–consultants make far less money. I know first hand that McKinsey partners make close to a million but that is contingent upon the overall firm profit-sharing plan and getting to that level is utter hell.</p>

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<p>But that only reinforces what I said before: Ibanks are incented to want deals to take place regardless of whether the deals are beneficial to the clients. The more deals are completed, the more fees are generated for the banks, which means that the Ibanks have every incentive to instigate as much ‘churn’ as possible. </p>

<p>I’ve heard stories of Ibanks advising clients to complete a certain acquisition, and then, years later, advising those same clients to sell that acquisition. Granted, perhaps the acquisition and subsequent divestment were both strategically advisable at the time, but even if it that were not the case, it is clearly true that the Ibank benefited through the fees they collected - in cash - in every transaction. The client may benefit or suffer from any given transaction, but the bank always benefits. The bank doesn’t care if the client acquires a bag of goods. </p>

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<p>Goldman Sachs is quite the special case of a firm with a truly glittering reputation for excellence in management and execution. Goldman Sachs was Fortune Magazine’s ‘Most Admired’ securities firm from 2005-2007. Goldman has been a pillar of Wall Street for 150 years, was an original founder of the groundbreaking New York Cotton Exchange, and was instrumental in the development of modern US business by securing funding of such historical nameplates as Sears & Roebucks, Macy’s, Woolworth’s, DEC, and RCA, and has been a key participant in the skyrocketing Chinese economy, having swept the awards for 2008 Equity Market Deal of the Year and Debt Market Deal of the Year in the ALB China Law Awards.</p>

<p>Oh wait, that wasn’t actually Goldman at all. Fortune Magazine’s Most Admired Securities Firm of 2005-2007 wasn’t Goldman, but rather was…Bear Stearns. The firm that was a pillar of Wall Street for 150 years, an original founder of the New York Cotton Exchange, secured funding for Sears, Macy’s, Woolworth’s, DEC, RCA, and swept the 2008 China Law Awards wasn’t Goldman, it was…Lehman Brothers. Only a year and a half ago, Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers were two of the most storied firms in the industry, each with a long and proud history. Now both of them have become global symbols of catastrophic failure, with the failure of Lehman in September 2008 being widely blamed for precipitating the meltdown of the entire world’s financial markets and nearly instigating a Second Great Depression and necessitating a chain reaction of taxpayer bailouts throughout the developed world. </p>

<p>One therefore has to wonder why so many counterparties transacted with Bear Stears and (especially) Lehman Brothers such that their failures caused such an epic series of chain reactions that caused the entire world’s financial markets to come crashing down. After all, if Bear and Lehman were known to be so risky, then why transact with them? Conversely, if Bear and Lehman were not known to be risky, then how did they manage to hide so effectively the gargantuan risks that they evidently were carrying? </p>

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<p>It does indeed - especially regarding the notion that, regardless of how appropriate any particular consulting project is, the consulting firm still gets paid. As explained in the “Management Myth” by Stewart (2009), the primary goal of any consulting firm vis-a-vis a client is not to actually find the best and most appropriate project for that client, but rather to secure more consulting engagements from that client. The absolute worst project that a consulting firm can ever perform is one that obviates the need for additional consulting. </p>

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<p>Sure…for the entry level. But most consultants and - especially- the bankers aren’t in the field for the entry level salaries. {I tend to agree with you that entry-level bankers are probably getting screwed.} The hope is that they will be able to stay and reap the escalating pay packets enjoyed by experienced bankers and consultants, which can, in the case of the bankers, can exceed 7 or even 8 figures. {Andrew Hall of Citigroup will reportedly be paid a bonus in excess of $100mn.} Engineers never have the chance to make that sort of money even after decades of experience, with the lone exception of the tiny fraction of engineers who become wealthy through entrepreneurship or stock options, an avenue that is available to consultants or bankers as well. </p>

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<p>Is that so? One old joke regarding working as an engineer at Microsoft is that they offered ‘flextime’: you could work any 14 hours of the day that you want. Electronic Arts became notorious for work hours so brutal as to spark lawsuits charging the violation of overtime laws. Google and Oracle provide free worksite cafeterias and concierge services with the clear goal of never having their employees ever needing to leave. And then of course there is the tech startup culture that is notorious for its all-encompassing lifestyle that leaves no time for anything else, where workers will even resort to sleeping under their desk because they don’t have time to go home. </p>

<p>[Sleepless</a> in Silicon Valley | The Industry Standard](<a href=“Infoworld | Technology insight for the enterprise”>Infoworld | Technology insight for the enterprise)</p>

<p>Now, one might argue that those sleep-deprived engineers who work at hard-charging software/IT/startup firms represent only a small fraction of all engineers out there. Perhaps. However, the same could be said for bankers and consultants. For example, if you want to be a banker but don’t want to work 100 hours a week, then don’t work in M&A or underwriting. You can work in sales & trading, where you basically only have to be around when the markets are open and hence the work hours are far shorter. Nor would you be necessarily sacrificing earning potential: the majority of the highest paid players on Wall Street are not M&A mavens, but are traders such as Andrew Hall. Similarly, if you want to be a consultant but don’t want to work brutal hours, then don’t work for one of the major strategy houses. You can work for a specialized boutique where the hours tend to be far more humane. </p>

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<p>Or get fired/laid-off. Let’s face it: with the possible exception of tenured academia or certain civil service jobs, lifetime employment security is an anachronism. Companies can and will lay you off at any time and for any reason, or sometimes for no reason at all, and often times with little warning. For example, my father knew a guy who was hired fresh out of school and moved halfway across the country for his new job…and during his first few days of work, before he had even been officially become a fully-fledged employee (he was still undergoing safety training and waiting for his employee keycard badge to be processed), the company announced that they were selling off his division and his position was targeted for elimination.</p>

<p>What therefore matters is not security of employment - for no company offers that anymore - but rather security of skills. Most college students, if they’re savvy, realize that they’re probably not going to work for their first employer for more than a few years, whether because they’ll find a better opportunity at another company, or because they’ll be laid off. Nor is that a particular hardship for most young people who usually don’t have families to support or mortgages to pay. What therefore matters to them - or should - is that they take a job that provides them with the opportunity to develop portable skills that they can easily market to another employer, as well as opportunities to build their professional network and a strong brand name that enhances the appeal of their resume. Whether right or wrong, many students conclude that consulting and banking provide better opportunities to accomplish all of those goals compared to engineering. Let’s be brutally honest: many (probably most) entry-level engineers are not provided with the opportunity to work on impactful, high-level projects where they can quickly build marketable skills. </p>

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<p>To blame markets is a copout, for that presumes that markets are inherently free and imperfect. Yet the fact is, labor markets are highly imperfect, because they are riven with information asymmetries which generates tremendous distortions. I know one guy from MIT who had a job offer for an engineering firm which he turned down in favor of job at a consulting firm…where he ended up consulting for the very same engineering firm that he had turned down. While he wasn’t privy to the exact bill rate, the consulting firm was surely charging far to that engineering firm more for his services than what the engineering firm had been offering him as a direct hire, probably by a factor of 10x. Heck, he even ended up having lunch with the hiring manager who had tried to recruit him, and that manager conceded that if he had that consulting offer, he would have taken it too. That hiring manager simply couldn’t offer a salary that was competitive with what the consulting firms were offering…but, as I said before, the company seemed to have no problem in paying giant consulting fees. So they basically ended up paying the same guy far more money, but through the consulting firm as an intermediary. </p>

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<p>Congraulations, you’re clearly doing very well for yourself; your entry-level salary exceeds that of most engineering disciplines at even a school such as MIT. </p>

<p><a href=“http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/graduation08.pdf[/url]”>http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/graduation08.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The fact is, most engineering students are not going to receive a starting engineering offer paying anywhere near 80k, which makes an offer in consulting or banking that much more appealing. </p>

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<p>But, like I said, the consulting firm will be paid anyway, whether their advice is utilized or not. So the consulting firm doesn’t really care. They don’t have to care. </p>

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<p>I am quite mystified as to what exactly this ‘Big Oil will take care of you’ mentality is, for I have never seen such a mentality even once. I have strong memories of 1998 when oil hit $10 a barrel, when oil companies couldn’t seem to lay people off fast enough and when Houston and much of the rest of the Gulf Coast seemed to be in mini-Depression. The entire history of the industry is replete with orgies of layoffs. </p>

<p>Since 1981, about 70 percent of the work force, or 1.1 million workers, has been laid off at the top 25 oil companies…Students have been driven away from petroleum engineering and geology studies by the oil industry’s history of big layoffs, analysts said.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/business/28rigs.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/business/28rigs.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>holy mother of god was that all one post</p>

<p>not even batman would know what to do here</p>