Shooting at Wake Forest

Colleges and Universities A-Z Wake Forest University
21

the barn is about a mile away, but yes it’s still on campus. I’ve been to it. You have to enter the campus gates to get there.

And there are events hosted there all of the time by Wake students, but the weekend parties thrown in the barn were usually by WSSU students. Other events using the Barn this year; a music festival, a gathering for a religious group, and sorority formal recruitment.

As someone in the thread said earlier, they have been lenient on on policing the gatherings of African American students and leave it up to the organizations. I wasn’t at the party, but I heard that they didn’t check IDs. The party that I went to earlier this year did not explicitly ask, but we had to verify who we were as students. However, I do remember security being posted outside.

But there are robberies and murders everywhere. I’m not saying that people should be constantly fearful of their lives walking down the street, but just be mindful and aware of your surroundings. I think that we as Wake students get very comfortable on campus and forget that people are not as kind outside of our gates.

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@CarriesBakers You’re making it sound like a third world country where, if you visit, you’d better stay on the resort’s property. I appreciate your opinion and would love to hear what other students have to say.

23

I don’t usually post much on this site, but as a current student at Wake, I feel like I have something to add.

First of all, I would like to express my sadness for the murder of Najee Ali Baker. I know that many in the community are praying for the his family and friends. Such a tragedy reminds us all that life is so precious and intricate.

With that said, I would like to say that both prior to and after the incident I feel safe living and studying at Wake. Regarding this incident, both the victim and perpetrator (most likely) were not students at Wake Forest. That does not change what happened, but its important to remember that the foremost priority of Wake Forest University is to keep our students, faculty, and staff safe at all times while on campus. By that very measure, Wake upheld its duty by ensuring no student, faculty member, or staff member was injured on Friday night. Furthermore, they are providing a myriad of support services to everybody in the Wake Forest community. WSSU is also providing counseling to its students.

To say that this tragedy was preventable is an unfair claim to make without undue burden. People might suggest that police officers and private security with guns and metal detectors “guard” parties. While such measures would ostensibly mitigate threats, we also have to consider the implications of the measures themselves. I don’t think such terms would be acceptable to most people, especially when members of the Wake community have felt that police have treated them unfairly. As such, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t blame Wake when the people hosting the party have openly criticized the police and the role they play on campus. Even so, it’s like playing whack-a-mole. Theoretically, say that Wake disallows the Barn from being used for social events after this tragedy (unlikely). What happens if this same party was hosted off-campus at a private residence (as most social gatherings sponsored by our Greek organizations are)? I really don’t see much of anything changing after this incident due to the continued willingness of Greek organizations to place people in danger. (That’s a topic for another day, though).

I would also like to comment on the security situation in general here. Considering that Winston-Salem has its fair share of crime, I believe Wake Forest does a wonderful job of protecting its campus. Isolated incidents like these are tragic, troubling, and disturbing, but they shouldn’t cause someone to live in fear. I hope and pray that everybody affected by this incident receives the support they need after this incident.

If you have any questions, I’m happy to help.

Peace,
wfufan

24

Sadly, these incidents are all too common these days – two were shot at a party near the University of Illinois this weekend. http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2018-01-22/arrest-made-urbana-house-party-shooting.html

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@wfufan Your post makes me wonder why Greek parties are off-campus (and why they put students in danger)? The whole set up seems odd. Why are students from other schools allowed to be at parties at The Barn which is on campus? Shouldn’t they show IDs? Is the university making money by hosting parties there (ie. do they charge for the space)? Why is the African American community upset with the police? I’m not sure any of this matters. Just that a prospective student even has to ask these questions seems like a problem.

To say that Wake ensured none of its students got hurt doesn’t make sense. Sounds like it was just dumb luck that any Wake student at this party wasn’t hurt. It’s not like campus police were there protecting Wake students and ignoring other guests at the party. This all just bums me out. I know a handful of kids who have visited and really liked the school, but I’m pretty sure they don’t know about the security issues.

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@applemath I agree. But this Wake incident was ON campus at a university-owned building.

27

@homerdog You raise some good points. Full disclosure: I am not a member of a Greek organization, so I cannot speak for them. Regardless, to respond to some of your questions:

On parties off-campus: While a select few parties take place on our campus at lounges or social venues leased to our Greek organizations (such as the one that resulted in the shooting), the vast majority occur at private residences leased by Greek organizations in the neighborhoods near campus. The reason that this happens? Only one fraternity has a house on campus. (FYI they are suspended and are likely getting the boot soon). Note that this is very different from many schools that have “fraternity/sorority row” and areas of that nature.

Why this is dangerous: Besides the fact that these gatherings are illegal, security is non-exixstant. Example: We had an incident earlier this year in which a fight broke out at a party and somebody was severely injured after being assaulted. The WSPD handled that one well. My argument is that why should Wake be responsible for protecting people who attend dangerous and unlawful gatherings off-campus?

Why were WSSU students at WFU last Friday: We have a number of historically black fraternities and sororities on campus that regularly host social events in collaboration with students from WSSU. Given the unique relationship between WFU and WSSU, I’m totally fine with this. Our schools share resources at all levels, and I think every attempt should be made for collaboration between our two universities.

ID’s: Quite simply, security is up to the host organization. I’m not quite sure that showing an ID would prevent a shooting.

The Barn: The Barn is a social space that any WFU-chartered organization can use for free. For those not affiliated, you can rent it out for a fee, much like a high school might rent out its gymnasium.

Police Relations: I’m not an African American, so I can’t quite answer this question, but there have been numerous allegations from African Americans that police have harassed or antagonized them in the past. The school hired an independent investigator and the report found no fault with the police actions. I don’t really take sides on this; both those critical of our police and our police have presented evidence supporting their claims, so I would say it depends on your perspective as for how you feel about this matter.

Final thoughts: Please do not take my post as a denunciation of Wake. I am happily enrolled here and I love it. I was merely trying to present the context in which the shooting occurred. It’s easy to make claims or assumptions without having the full picture, so I hope you consider that. Also, when I said that the police kept people safe, I meant more after the incident. There was a massive and timely response and students were alerted immediately to take shelter for their own safety. In that sense, after the shooting occurred, Wake did its job. Given the situation, it’s unrealistic to have predicted this tragic occurrence given that it was not premeditated.

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The Barn is on campus and owned by Wake. Opened in2011, it is a facility used by Wake recognized clubs, organizations, fraternities & sororities for parties, concerts, social events. In June & July, it can be reserved for weddings & social events by outside groups. It must be reserved in advance. Delta Sigma Theta , a Wake sorority, reserved The Barn. The sorority is mainly African American & was suspended from Wssu for hazing & is still banned but Wake has a chapter. This sorority has been suspended from about 12 other colleges for hazing, including ECU, at one time or another. Wake is not saying whether there was any security at the party but supposedly everyone had student I.D.,from one college or another. This was an incident, a tragedy waiting to happen and someone has to step up to own it. His name is President Nathan Hatch. Wake is a safe campus, this is the first murder that I can remember ever happening on the Reynolda Campus since Wake moved to WS in 1956 from the old campus at the town of Wake Forest. If there was another on campus killing since 1956,I don’t remember it. A Wake dad has written that one student was shot several years ago off campus --Wake is not responsible for that. Wake does not have to furnish protection off campus --no college should have to. But on campus --yes. Even if the African American students complained before about police interference & discrimination. Here we have a sorority that may or may not have been liable or share responsibility, a sorority banned from wssu with wssu students & wake students &apparently from all appearances, the students were to police themselves. If these are not the facts, Wake news person needs to say so instead of claiming it is part of the ongoing investigation & she cannot comment. Here, Wake was more concerned about its image as being non discriminatory & having no police than having police protection to make sure no one got hurt. It is a balancing process where Wake needed to seriously weigh the consequences :safety versus complaints of discrimination. Henceforth, Wake shall have to have police present at all Barn student functions. The buck stops somewhere : here it is at the door of the President, Nathan Hatch, which is where the dead body of this unfortunate young man from Winston Salem State also lies.

29

Parent of a freshmen here. Spoke to my son today and asked him about the area near school off campus (I think between the main gate and downtown WS as the other entrances seem to be near nice neighborhoods.) He said he knows all about it and it’s a little sketchy. His exact words were “I know all about it. It’s not the best area, but in groups it’s not a big deal”.

So, like anything else, you need to be smart about things, aware of your surrounding and take necessary precautions. The bigger the group the better.

Lot of places like that. It’s a shame we have to even think about things like this. These things unfortunately happen in many places. Wonder how parents (and students) feel about schools in actual cities. NYC, Chicago, Boston, Philly, etc. They must deal with this stuff a lot.

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@rickle1 I somewhat understand there might be unsafe areas outside an urban campus. But (1) Winston-Salem is not Chicago amd (2) the murder happened on campus.

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@homerdog I’m not sure anything anyone says here will make you feel comfortable with Wake. Maybe you should call the admissions office and discuss it with them and see if they can ease your concerns. Good Luck in your process :slight_smile:

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@lbf. Maybe. I guess I was hoping for someone who knows the school well to explain why there was a breakdown in safety and what the university is going to do about it. Instead, the responses seem to be more like “eh, it happens everywhere” or “there have been problems between the local police and African American students for a while now”. Not really what I was hoping to hear. The university isn’t helping itself either with basically no updates on their website and no plan to review how they can do better.

33

@homerdog I know the school is working to figure out what exactly went wrong and how to prevent it from happening in the future. They also can’t give too many details as it is an ongoing police investigation and until it is resolved they can’t share too much. This is such a tricky thing, We visited about 15 college campuses when we were looking at schools and you can walk onto any campus freely, no one would know if you have a gun or not. I agree with @wfufan you could have metal detectors at the entrance to every event but that would change the whole feel of the campus. Wake does have a guard gate at the entrances and after 10:00 pm that you have to stop at before you come in. I truly believe this was an isolated incident. I would really recommend calling the admissions office and talk to them about it.

34

Just to clarify about the Wake student who was shot off campus. This incident occurred in 2016. The student was in his house at the time, located approximately 4000 feet from the Wingate Rd. gate onto campus. He was shot in the torso by an unknown assailant whom I believe was never apprehended. In 2017, there have been at least three burglaries at that same home. Also in 2017, there was an on-campus incident in which a female student was crossing the Quad in the early morning hours, and was approached by a stranger, apparently not a student, who without provocation or warning punched her in the face.

35

There is no mystery about what went wrong and how it could have been prevented.

The facts are simple: university administrators were at best irresponsible and at worst negligent in not providing adequate security at certain events held at the Barn. I would not be surprised to see the parents of the murdered WSSU student sue WFU for intentionally neglecting to provide security at a type of event that had been associated with serious violence in the past. The evidence for that is provided in the 2014 testimony of a campus police officer as reported in the WS Chronicle, which is the black city paper in WS.

http://www.wschronicle.com/2014/11/campus-cops-hear-students-grievances/

“…Wake Forest Police Cpl. James Gravely said there have been incidents at The Barn that have warranted a greater police presence. He said there were once six fights at The Barn at one time. He said three campus police officers could not handle the situation alone, so three Winston-Salem police officers were called in to assist them.
“Three officers can’t handle six fights,” he said.”

When black WFU students complained about WFU campus police trying to control the violence caused by outsiders that would break out at Barn events sponsored by black WFU student organizations, university administrators responded by ordering mandatory “implicit bias” and diversity training for its police. Fine, no real harm in such things.

However, what was much worse was the order for the campus police to not staff these events and leave the security up to the students. There is a history of dangerous violence at these events and university administrators respond by telling their own police force to STAY AWAY and get more sensitivity training? Unbelievable!

I think the parents of the murdered student will sue and I expect WFU to quietly settle the suit with a very large payoff.

36

@homerdog, I wasn’t referring to the murder but rather the area in general. Saturday was a terrible tragedy. Not a lot of information available. From what I can tell, it was an isolated, yet horrible, situation. When I think of general safety, I’m more concerned with the overall area, kids walking around off campus, etc.

37

@wakedad2018 Are you a father of a senior at WFU? Just curious by your name and the fact that these are your only posts.

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I think that it is quite clear that this incident raises a lot of questions about how things could have been different, but I don’t see how we can blame the administration quite yet. Trust me, I don’t always agree with Wake’s high-level decision making, but given what we do and don’t know, its too early to pin the blame on the school administration. At the end of the day, the administration was put in a difficult position to begin with.

As @wakedad2018 puts it, the police were told to stay away from Barn events following the incident a few years ago. This concession was in exchange for the black student organizations’ quieting down about alleged harassment from police. I don’t see how it is now the school’s fault that a non-Wake-student (most likely) murdered a non-Wake-student at a social event from which the police were barred. If the organizations hosting this event did not want security, that is their risk to assume. Thereby, anybody attending a party from which the police were barred assumes that same risk. The administration gave people what they wanted and this is what happens. It is terribly unfortunate and neither the victim nor those in attendance deserve to endure such awful circumstances, but it certainly was not members of the school administration who pulled the trigger of that gun.

Besides, let’s say that somebody got shot in a busy restaurant. Can the victim’s family sue the restaurant? Was the restaurant’s owner supposed to pat everybody down and make sure that they weren’t carrying a gun to go kill somebody? How is this any different? What happens when restaurant patrons start suing the owner for civil rights violations when they pat people down at the entrance? Let’s not be so quick to antagonize Wake Forest.

39

I agree 100%. Wake is liable particularly with notice of prior incidents. This was not just an isolated incident at The Barn but an ongoing problem to which the President & administration chose to ignore for fear of being labeled bigots or racists. Police should have been present at this & all Barn student events& parties. Also, the event was sponsored by a sorority approved by Wake but which has had its chapter at WSSU suspended for 10 years & is still suspended for hazing & has had chapters suspended at about 12 other colleges. Don’t know the extent of their culpability if any but should have been another red flag. The decision is clear: close The Barn for student activities or have police supervision.

40

I was agreeing with Wakedad2018 in my comments above. I do not agree with wakefan. Wake is not a restaurant serving the general public but a private university which has a duty if it were a restaurant to insure that those entrusted to come upon its campus do not get poisoned or as it were, murdered. It could have done this by having police present & supervising the event. The administration had knowledge of prior violent occurrences at The Barn during parties that involved students from the same school. One prior event in 2014 involved six separate fights, too much for three Wake police to handle & WS police had to assist as documented in the WS Chronicle, the local African American newspaper. The administration has to decide who runs the school & have the common sense & courage to provide protection even over the protests of those whom they protect or simply close The Barn door. Wake has causal & actionable negligence --almost reckless --failure to take even minimum steps to protect the young man who was killed. While the settlement may be quiet, the lawsuit may not be.