<p>Really, the more I think about it…when we have Islamic extremists promising an attack on Americans, the government issues alerts and raises the terror threat. We are told we should keep our eyes and ears open for suspicious activity. Yet in this case, even knowing there was a credible threat, the police seem not even to have alerted the roommates that they were living with someone who had threatened to hurt himself or others. And I am not sure when he started openly discussing his love/loathing of beautiful blonde sorority girls, but if my daughter lived in the area and fit that description I would be pretty freaked out that she might have been in danger for some time without knowing to keep her guard up and be on the lookout for weirdos behaving erratically.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, they do have a right to be crazy and yes, we don’t want too much police power or to have our rights taken away. However, there needs to be attention toward suicide prevention and murder prevention. Granted, we don’t know the exact text of these earlier videos this guy posted in April, but it is reported that his mother and therapist were concerned because he spoke of SUICIDE and KILLING. I guess I feel if flags are raised about those things (and not about simply being “crazy”), something needs to be done…even it means more vigilance and checking up on the person more than once or not just relying on their own word that they are “fine.” Otherwise, what can be done to prevent such tragedies when flags were raised and police were even involved with the kid? It is not like this totally came out of nowhere. People WERE concerned, including a professional mental health provider and even his own parents who were willing for police to get involved with their own son.</p>
<p>I remember when Columbine happened, there was a lot of criticism of the perpetrators’ parents and people commenting these particular parents didn’t they know what their kid was up to, etc. In this new case, the parents were getting their son regular therapy, obviously kept some tabs on him as a young adult by viewing what he posted online, AND contacted authorities when worried about what he might do, etc. They called for authorities but it didn’t really help. Again, I don’t have easy answers, but this is troubling.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Actually, someone did express that earlier. “Our culture absolutely supports the idea that men can take what is “rightfully” theirs–i.e., a woman flirting with a guy or wearing suggestive clothing is asking to be raped”</p>
<p>That is an extremist view - we don’t support rape because a woman is dressed in suggestive clothes.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No.<br>
Our culture allows people to express their ideas, even if they are stupid or unpopular.
This is overall a good thing for two reasons:
- It allows the idiots to out-themselves as having stupid ideas. “Sunlight is the best disinfectant”.<br>
- It allows for unpopular views to be expressed, discussed, and debated. For example, I don’t think the President, VP and the country overall would have changed their view on gay marriage and gay rights so quickly if our society did not enable that formerly “unpopular” idea to be discussed.</p>
<p>I am not sure those issues are a “VERY LARGE” part of our culture.
Of the top tv 25 shows in 2013, maybe 2 fit into that category of violence - Criminal Minds and The Following - but those are about capturing the criminals. The Following is too gratuitous for my taste.
Of the top 25 movies of 2013, one seems to fit, GI Joe Retribution, that was #25 and the violence was more “cartoon violence” vs. graphic violence.
Of the Academy Award Nominees, one fits the criteria of woman as sex objects - , Wolf of Wall Street. Although the lead woman has a strong role IIRC (she ditched the guy), and the guy came off as an idiot.
Of the top 20 songs of 2013, one may fit, Blurred Lines, but that was more about sex overall vs. women as sex objects</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>We do seem to have this discussion when something comes up.
Whenever a violent video game is released there are two vocal camps
- This is bad - it will promote violence.
- This is okay - and they cite research that shows it has no effect on people.</p>
<p>When Jamie Foxx said of his role in Django, “I kill all the white people in the movie.” there was plenty of discussion about that. Some people boycotted and, as a country, we moved on.</p>
<p>Also, CA has a provision I think for mental health providers to have a duty to protect and warn. It sounds like this therapist did just that when the mother alerted the therapist that her son had posted disturbing videos about suicide and killing. The therapist reported it to authorities in order to protect and warn. But perhaps the buck stops there? The police only have to take the person’s word that “I’m fine…it’s just a misunderstanding?” That seems nuts to me.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, but…didn’t the calling of the police occur in April, and the rampage occurred a month or more later? The parents should have done something in the interim to change the status quo, otherwise why should they expect their son to have changed?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, actually I do. I think it has come to that point. Why should any person’s “right” to be crazy–after showing warning signs or issuing threats–trump the right of others to be safe? Again, why not treat these people like the potential terrorists they are?</p>
<p>This is a person who splashed girls with his latte, sprayed kids with orange juice out of a super soaker, and tried to push a group of students off a cliff. PEOPLE SAW SIGNS. They just had no way of putting them all together. And the parents accepted what the police told them in April without much hesitation, it would seem.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/sheriff-calif-shooter-rodger-flew-under-the-radar-when-deputies-visited-him-in-april/2014/05/25/88123026-e3b4-11e3-8dcc-d6b7fede081a_story.html”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/sheriff-calif-shooter-rodger-flew-under-the-radar-when-deputies-visited-him-in-april/2014/05/25/88123026-e3b4-11e3-8dcc-d6b7fede081a_story.html</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Has there been any report of what the previous videos were about?<br>
I know the one released that day, but what were in the other ones?
Do we actually know if there was anything specific?</p>
<p>My understanding was the police never saw the videos. They responded to the mother’s concern based on what she said she saw.
If he said anything specific, I would have hoped that the mom reported that.</p>
<p>If he had any specific threats, the police didn’t need to know if he had guns, that info is enough to bring him in for questioning. May have been enough to get a warrant. </p>
<p>So I think that what the mom reacted to was nothing specific but general enough to be concerning.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>True…though I am not sure what they did or did not do in the interim about their adult son. They alerted authorities once and nothing happened. Maybe more information will come out. I don’t feel we know enough to conclude that the parents “expected their son to have changed.”</p>
<p>“And the parents accepted what the police told them in April without much hesitation, it would seem.”</p>
<p>What does this mean? The parents know more about their crazy son than the police will ever know. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>We don’t know what happened.
The guy was smart and manipulative.
For all we know he said “yeah mom, I had a really bad day when I posted those. I was off my meds and I was bummed about a girl who didn’t return my calls. Besides, I did it as a dare and my friend Bill put me up to it. But all is good now, I am back on meds, I feel great and there is a new girl at the gym who I am going to ask out…”</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.youtube.com/user/ElliotRodger”>https://www.youtube.com/user/ElliotRodger</a></p>
<p>There are several videos on his Youtube channel, all pretty disturbing.</p>
<p>The parents are planning to release a statement later this week. This is the same old story over and over again. If someone needs meds to prevent a shooting spree, there is a good chance there will eventually be a shooting spree. Sadly. </p>
<p>I still find it disconcerting that all the police can or do is take the word of the person who on the surface can come across as OK and can manipulate the situation. It seems more follow up on such reports are worthy. If not, why bother to report or warn? Even his own parents were willing to report him to authorities!</p>
<p>What should the police have done? A month long stake-out? I just don’t know what they were supposed to do. And, we have no idea what they were told by this therapist. </p>
<p>@patemom
Thanks for the link…I think…they are hard to watch.</p>
<p>Where there any that threatened violence or suicide? I didn’t go through all of them. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Here is the problem the police have. Either, or both, parties can manipulate the situation.</p>
<p>On the one hand, they get a phone call from someone they don’t know about their adult, 22 year old son who is living with roommates. (vs. an 18 year old living in a dorm).
On the other hand, they have a conversation with a person face-to-face and judge him based on his demeanor and what he says.</p>
<p>We don’t know what the mother said. I saw some of those videos, not all, and besides being creepy, the guy complained about no girl friend, life is unfair. I didn’t see the part about specific threats of suicide or violence.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Fluffy, first, it is reported that the mother alerted the therapist about the videos in April who then alerted the police. So, it wasn’t the mother who spoke to the police. It was a mental health professional (who I believe has a duty to warn). AND it was reported that the reason for the mother (and then the therapist’s) concern was that they viewed posted videos (later taken down) that mentioned SUICIDE and KILLING. Just because the videos that are now online don’t mention that, it doesn’t mean that there were not other videos that did. That was the cause of the step to contact police (reportedly).</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_25837901/elliot-rodgers-parents-made-frantic-dash-santa-barbara”>http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_25837901/elliot-rodgers-parents-made-frantic-dash-santa-barbara</a></p>
<p>Okay, here’s a pretty good rundown of what may have happened. Apparently, the mom called a “counselor” who called a mental health service who called the police. It’s reasonable to think some of the story got lost in there somewhere. Also, I would be careful of reports because everyone including the family is obviously in CYA mode.</p>
<p>I just find this whole situation so incredibly sad and can only imagine what his parents must be going through, thinking that they didn’t do enough to help their son, thereby possibly preventing this horrific mass murder. Here’s a story from today’s LA Times:</p>
<p><a href=“In Isla Vista, red flags came too late”>In Isla Vista, red flags came too late;