<p>“The visit occurred after a person who identified himself as a friend of Rodger called a county mental health staff member. Based on that call and information from Rodger’s mother, sheriff’s officials said in a statement released Thursday, the staffer requested the welfare check.”</p>
<p>This.</p>
<p>@Goldenpooch I was NOT speculating that they tried one thing after another when the prior thing didn’t work. I read his manifesto and even though it wasn’t about his parents and his mental illness, his irritation at some things they did, like his mom demanding he get a job when he wasn’t succeeding at Pierce college, his train of psychiatrists and psychologists, the sudden appearance of rent a friends and trips etc makes me think they were trying what they thought would work. Economic pressure doesn’t ‘work to obtain reliability’ in a fair number of people with mental illness, hence the living under freeway bridges rather than holding down a full time job, in many cases. Or perhaps that isn’t sufficient pressure? His parents knew him and were trying. Maybe they could have tried something else, but it looked like they did push economic pressure where they thought they could. A mixture of carrot and stick. They had many advisers and that we might after the fact suggest something different doesn’t mean to me that they were out of line to try what they were trying and hope it would work. He obviously told them he needed a classier car, I expect he blamed his lack of social life on that. Years later, his mom ultimately gave him one. It may have been tied to enrollment in more classes or to going to the psychologist or to the rent a friends. They were trying. </p>
<p>I don’t think they were perfect and I hope I wouldn’t have sent my kid ‘away’ like that, Santa Monica City College is closer and also not far from the beach (but wasn’t part of a community he personally believed would solve all his ills.) I honestly think they weren’t always strong with him, and got worn down, but I don’t absolutely know I wouldn’t have been a bit worn down if it were me as his parent. I’m just not going to judge them, since they were clearly working at it actively in their own way. </p>
<p>20/20 hindsight is perfect.</p>
<p>As to the enrollment in SBCC, he enrolled every semester. The last semester he was in online classes because his leg was broken last year and he didn’t know he’d be back in SB by the time the semester started. He mentioned in his manifesto that even in the last semester he would go on campus at SBCC even though he was only in online courses, apparently expecting the girls to approach him the same way he expected the girls to approach him if he walked down the street in Isla Vista. He considered having his ‘Day of Retribution’ at SBCC but decided the sorority houses and IV parties were too ripe a target. He chose the day he did because it was the last day for SBCC, with graduation and he wanted to have retribution against them, as well.</p>
<p>That sounds a bit like police spin to me, Flossy. The parents and therapist said THIS:
</p>
<p>Everyone is spinning, agreed. </p>
<p>But, the call came from who the call came from otherwise that’s lying. The therapist? Counselor? Friend? issue is interesting, as well. We really have no idea what was going on in terms of care or who was providing it. I mean, we have a psychiatrist to the stars prescribing Risperidone in 2012. A psychologist in SB and another in LA. Then there are 3 counselors also called rent-a-friends and now a prescription for Xanax from somebody, somewhere. And a possible Aspergers diagnosis at 8 which was later denied and called possible. </p>
<p>The family and the police are both spinning as would be expected. Meanwhile, Dr Sophy is not returning calls from the press. Now, that’s unusual. </p>
<p>Haven’t followed who was is primary treating doctor and/or primary treating therapist. People do change doctors/therapists for a variety of reasons (relocation, change of healthcare insurance, looking for a better “fit” as it were). Dont know what are being referred to as “rent a friends”. That is NOT what therapists do.</p>
<p>In our county we have providers that do “rehab”, which generally includes going out into the community, helping “clients” navigate day to day life. They usually have fewer credentials than the folks that do therapy. </p>
<p>“Shrinkrap pointed out that if we want mental health professionals to be involved in situations like that, we’re going to have to allocate more money to public mental health issues.”</p>
<p>I also said the police do it because they are mobile, and because it is dangerous, and they can restrain and cuff patients, and forcibly take patients to a mental health agency to do a mental health evaluation. This is where I think the funding needs to be. Our county tried mobile services, with no physical presence, only the support of local emergency rooms, but that is very expensive for the er’s that must board patients until a disposition can be made. Another area in which resources are very insufficient. </p>
<p>Yes, there is a definitely a confusion of terms going on, here. The rent-a-friends were social role models suggested by somebody. One was a 25-year old young women named Sasha who quit before the incident. The other two were young men.</p>
<p>Ah, so perhaps a rehab counselor or possibly life coach or some such person. “Rent a friend” sounds pejorative.</p>
<p>How were these social role models arranged? And where is this reported? Can you kindly provide a link?</p>
<p>@soozievt @Flossy I am not blaming the police, particularly since I now realize there are so many of those calls and officers are called in from other work, not prepared. I am looking at the system of attending to those calls and am wondering if the system might be different, with some baseline screening of 15 or 20 minutes by a social worker or the mental health agency of the basis for the complaint, at least the first time the person goes into the system. Those who use it routinely would bounce back out. I don’t know if it is worth it, I would have to know what percentage of these calls could have a substantially better outcome if that were the case. But my thought is that a flag that there is potential need for caution added to a quick check of the preexisting gun registry since they certainly have one in CA, might give the police a lower threshold for probable cause to search the place. To be precise, it doesn’t so much lower the standard as begin to satisfy the standard before the police get there, by giving them additional facts. I’m not saying that is what should be done, but I’d be interested in figuring out if it would be helpful.</p>
<p>The “rent-a-friends” don’t sound so odd to me. Clearly one of ER’s issues was his lack of social skills. Having people his age try to help him gain social skills sounds like a reasonable approach, to me. At least, it’s not a completely off-the-wall approach.</p>
<p>People on the autism spectrum typically don’t gain social skills by watching, so modeling the correct behavior is not enough. Think of it like learning to talk. A normal kid will learn to talk automatically by having people talk to him. But suppose your kid is deaf, and you want them to learn to lipread and speak. Deaf people can learn to speak, but they have to be explicitly taught, the teaching has to be intensive, and they will never be as good as a hearing person. </p>
<p>In the same way, a neurotypical person will learn to interpret non-verbal social signals automatically, from infancy. An autistic person will simply not see those signals, as a deaf person will not hear speech or a color-blind person will not distinguish red from green. An autistic person can learn some social skills, but typically they have to be explicitly taught, and the autistic person will never be as good as a neurotypical person. </p>
<p>When we express amazement that ER expected to stand next to a young woman and have her drape herself all over him without him having to do anything, we should realize that apparently, that’s what he thought was happening with the other young men. </p>
<p>It’s kind of like everyone else communicating with mental telepathy, and the Aspie/autism spectrum person can’t perceive the communication going on. For many on the autism spectrum, non-verbal communication might as well be mental telepathy.</p>
<p>An article discussing the gun “database”, and how it is or could be used. Might already have been posted. Also says;</p>
<p>" disclosing that deputies had been informed of disturbing videos Roger had posted on YouTube, but did not view them before or after leaving his apartment. But they did ask him about the videos.
“When questioned by the deputies about reported disturbing videos he had posted online, Rodger told them he was having trouble fitting in socially in Isla Vista and the videos were merely a way of expressing himself,” the sheriff’s department said on its Facebook page. “Based upon the information available to them at the time, Sheriff’s deputies concluded that Rodger was not an immediate threat to himself or others, and that they did not have cause to place him on an involuntary mental health hold, or to enter or search his residence. Therefore, they did not view the videos or conduct a weapons check on Rodger.”</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.theday.com/article/20140531/NWS13/305319917/1044”>http://www.theday.com/article/20140531/NWS13/305319917/1044</a></p>
<p>collegevetting, I agree with your post at 12:22 PM. I am also not blaming police. But I think lessons can be learned from this incident and perhaps the PROCESS changed up a bit. Flags were raised here and perhaps the process of the intervention by police can be changed along the lines of what you posted. </p>
<p>I see this case as different than, let’s say the boys who killed at Columbine, because the parents were aware of troubles with their son, sought help, and contacted authorities when they viewed what they (and mental health professionals!) perceived as troubling videos that supposedly brought up suicide and killing and getting back at people. So, intervention of some sort was sought, unlike in some of the other cases when nobody had a clue something was amiss. </p>
<p>CF,
Aspies/ASD individuals do often need nonverbal cues and social interchanges explained to them. They do tend to take things literally and not understand the nuances of social intricacies or body language.</p>
<p>If he was provided with social skills trainers (perhaps a better term than “rent a friend”) they could explain the behaviors and interchanges and teach him how to do that. But with the degree of underlying, seething anger that he apparently had, one has to wonder if he was equally angry at these tutors who had skills, or natural social abilities that he did not.</p>
<p>“My Psychiatrist … Dr. Sophy ended up giving me the same useless advice that every other psychiatrist, psychologist, and counsellor had given me in the past. I don’t know why my parents wasted money on therapy, as it will never help me in my struggle against such a cruel and unjust world. The doctor ended up dismissing it by prescribing me a controversial medication, Risperidone. After researching this medication, I found that it was the absolute wrong thing for me to take. I refused to take it, and I never saw Dr. Sophy again after that.”</p>
<p>From his manifesto. There was article days ago naming the social role models. Sasha and Adam were two of them. I don’t remember the third. But, it said they were hired by the mom. The term rent-a-friend came from whoever was quoted in that article. If I find a link I’ll post it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Me neither; not comprehending at all. His mother lived about 1 hour away in driving time, his father about an hour and a half. </p>
<p>When I had a serious concern about one of my adult children’s mental welfare (nothing approaching that depicted in the videos - but I really didn’t know for sure), at significant expense H and I got on a plane and spent time with them in person. If we didn’t do it, no one else was going to. ER’s parents had the ability to visit him daily at no expense other than the cost of gas.</p>
<p>As I wrote earlier, if the parents didn’t do anything between the police visit and the massacre, one wonders why they expected things to have changed for the better. He ended up doing what he said he was going to do.</p>
<p>@jym6262 I may have been the first person to use the term ‘rent a friend’. I didn’t at all mean it as an insult; I have no experience in the area and I wasn’t sure what these people were in terms of the mental health field, or whether they were precisely in the mental health field. I completely understood why his parents hoped it would help him, not just in training him but potentially in helping to break the ice at a party, assuming they went to parties which I am not sure if they did. But speaking to strangers is easier for everyone if you go with someone you know, and bring others into your conversation or aren’t choosing between standing alone and digging your toe into the carpet (so to speak) and approaching a stranger. I don’t know how trained they were, because I know about them from ER’s manifesto where he spoke of his parents hiring people to go out with him and ‘act like friends’. They were sequential, not all at once. First there were two different guys, then a woman. He kind of enjoyed it, particularly the woman which he said was the first time he had ever gone to do things with a woman and it made him feel more like the other folks, except he likened it to hiring a prostitute rather than having sex with someone who wants you for yourself.</p>
<p>I was just making the point that “rent-a-friends” are not a priori a bad idea, even though they didn’t work out for ER. Maybe nothing would have worked. </p>
<p>If a person is resistant to therapy, resistant to the idea that they even have a problem, change is difficult. In order for an Aspie to learn social skills, they have to admit that such a thing as social skills exist, other people have social skills, and they don’t. ER didn’t seem to even get to that point; he was still believing that he was denied his deserved girlfriend because of a “cruel and unjust world” rather than his mental disorder. (It’s cruel and unjust that he had a disorder and others don’t, but I don’t think that’s what he was saying.)</p>
<p>It sounds like he engaged in significant externalization of blame. Took no personal responsibility for any of the experiences he had.</p>
<p>This is about Gavin, another counselor from the manifesto… </p>
<p>“He was a good-looking guy, with a chiseled jaw and bright blonde hair. Whenever we went out to a restaurant, or anywhere that had girls, I got extremely jealous when I saw that girls were checking him out instead of me. This one girl at a restaurant in Santa Monica was staring at him the whole time we were sitting there. No girl had ever done that to me. This only made me more aware that girls did not consider me physically attractive.”</p>
<p>“’The second counselor that was assigned to help me was a girl named Sasha. She was only a year older than me. Sasha was the first young girl I had interacted with in the entire time I stayed in Santa Barbara, and she was only hired to talk to me. How pathetic is that? At first, I didn’t want to have a female counselor, but when I was introduced to her, I saw that she was quite a pretty looking blonde. I couldn’t refuse the opportunity to hang out with a blonde girl, despite the fact that she was a hired friend."</p>
<p>He says they were hired by his parents.But, yeah, it didn’t work…</p>