<p>@sally305 </p>
<p>No, guns are generally used in shooting ranges, not to shoot people.</p>
<p>But thanks for checking.</p>
<p>Then he should be evicted by the residential facility. If firearms are allowed by the housing facility then the landlord has a duty to inform his roommates that the roommate is currently in possession of 3 guns.</p>
<p>Is there any evidence ER practiced at a shooting range before slaughtering innocent victims with his guns and ammo?</p>
<p>@fluffy2017 I addressed what I thought they would do. Since the parents originated the call they could ask them if they knew of the guns and when they said both no and that it was out of character it starts to build up to probable cause to search. They would also in my scenario have a mental health person quickly scanning google for the guy and whatever spurred the complaint, the video, etc, and just saying whether it did or did not also raise red flags. In this case I understand there were glorifications of violence by him on social media. Then the police could politely ask where he keeps the guns and if he can see them. If he maintains his poise and is convincing during all of this, that is one thing, but given his frustration level, I think that additional pressure could make him act in ways giving them justification. Also they could ask the landlord if guns were allowed (I doubt it) and if ER said they were kept there, might be able to investigate based on that. It isn’t just the guns, it is mostly that his parents were concerned enough to for the first time ask the police to conduct this sort of check. In cases where the family asks over and over, that could have a different level of response.</p>
<p>Not saying it is perfect, it might not usually add much in which case it wouldn’t be the right thing to do, but it does give the police both more facts for leverage and more facts to use to build probable cause for a search. Then if they find three guns 400 rounds of ammo and multiple machetes, given the threats on social media maybe they have cause to check his computer. In which case, there would be the manifesto. There might have been printouts, as well. </p>
<p>So not a panacea, just an idea.</p>
<p>I guess it is just tough for me to wrestle with the idea that even with all the red flags, knowing in advance STILL doesn’t do any good. But maybe it doesn’t. The first time someone mentally ill, or not mentally ill, attacks someone, it is pretty hard to prevent in advance.</p>
<p>AS for the Minority Report ‘pre crime’ put me down as opposed to that on due process grounds.</p>
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<p>So they are for sport…a very, very dangerous sport. Got it.</p>
<p>Uh-oh, The gun debate, again. We did that for days. Incidentally, there is a CA gun regulation proposal coming out of this tragedy. See below. Now, the problem I see here is the police were not attempting to build probable cause for a search because they thought they were going to check on a depressed kid. A welfare check was requested. I think they could have made a pretty good case certainly in 20 days. But, unfortunately they didn’t know they were supposed to be doing that. Someone needs to tell them this stuff before they can reasonably be expected to start investigating potential future crimes. Also, the mental health person scanning Google looking for kooks is going to be very busy.</p>
<p>“AB1014 would allow anyone to obtain a “gun violence” restraining order against a friend or family member that has shown a propensity to commit violence. It would keep violent and mentally unstable people from buying or owning guns.”</p>
<p>BTW, ER’s dad met privately with the father of the victim, Christopher Martinez this afternoon.</p>
<p>Wut?
How is a shooting range a dangerous sport?
Do you have any context at all since you claim that guns are generally used to shoot people?
Every year, about 10,000,000,000 rounds of ammo are sold in the US. Generally, they aren’t used to shoot people since there are only about 330,000,000 in the US.</p>
<p>@jym626 IIRC, he went to the range once and that was a while ago, I think after he got the first gun over a year ago.</p>
<p>Guns are DESIGNED for hunting and physical protection, fluffy. Don’t be disingenuous.</p>
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<p>Exactly once. This is part of why I think these things would have raised more red flags. This guy wasn’t an NRA gun club member or active at his local shooting range, he was someone no one thought had guns, (except that prior roommate apparently) and whose personality would make that seem startling. Reading between the lines of people saying he trembled if you spoke to him and generally never spoke at all, and the police report of him as ‘timid’, all this together might be viewed as unusual. Or maybe not, it just seems unusual to me.</p>
<p>You actually make a really good point, collegevetting. Someone who owns weapons for sport (sadly, this group includes people like Adam Lanza) is likely not keeping them in secret.</p>
<p>@Flossy I had proposed a change to how these wellness calls were conducted to have gun records checked (where they exist, as here) and a mental health professional run a quick 15-20minute screen of the information, and google search to see if anything jumped out. So my comments here go with that. I understand that with so many calls and so little training that isn’t how it happens now. And mine might not be a good idea, it was just one tailored to this circumstance.</p>
<p>I know, all ideas are interesting. The gun check part makes sense to me, too. The Googling not so much. I don’t even think this is a training issue since no-one is trained to recognize future mass murders. Bringing along a social worker does not make me think that would produce an “a-ha” moment. Maybe, I’m wrong.</p>
<p>There is so much available on social media, youtube, etc. Why not consider checking it for any red flags? Data is data. </p>
<p>@collegevetting Not to get too technical, but “probable cause” is related to committing a crime, not a suspicion that you may one day commit a crime.</p>
<p>But even if they found all that with an illegal search or an approved search, all he needs to say is that his dad is a director and he has been working on this manifesto as the basis for a screenplay. Then what?</p>
<p>Life doesn’t work like the old Perry Mason episodes or Columbo episodes where the person blurts out their guilt under the slightest pressure. </p>
<p>@Flossy says:
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<p>Something tells me there is a press conference coming out of that meeting.</p>
<p>@sally305 Now you are just being silly.<br>
It isn’t what they are designed for, it is what they are used for that is relevant. If people only used guns for protection and hunting, there wouldn’t be 10B rounds sold every year. Every year. How much hunting do you think people do? Is it all them “bubbas” that you referred to that are doing all that hunting?</p>
<p>fluffy,
if the law enforcement are well trained, they can often recognize a lie when they hear one. In fact, they are more likely to assume its a lie than that its the truth. And they could simply reply by asking for dads cellphone # to corroborate the story. Not so hard. If the kid balks at giving the # or claims hes out of town or unavailable or otherwise hesitates, it will probably unravel…</p>
<p>@collegevetting Yup. And, then it’s back to the gun debate. </p>
<p>@jym626 that is what I meant by googling him. Likely it would be a two minute detour most of the time, but where as here he used his real name on social media, and picture, an image search and / or googling his name would actually have turned stuff up of interest. This is the definition of 20/20 hindsight of course. Here we have a guy who was on the gun registry and owned guns when completely out of what was believed to be his character, put up violent thoughts on social media and creepy youtube videos, AND had family concerned enough that they asked for a wellness check. I don’t know if a mental health professional would be able to rate that into a star system of red flags or not, but it is a shame all that being out there wasn’t helpful in this case.</p>