Shot myself the foot. Now what?

Parents Forum
1

<p>(Let's see if I can do this right this time, shall we?)</p>

<p>Not literally, thank God. ;)</p>

<p>The short story:
I had an excellent professor last semester who basically thought I walked on academic water, said s/he looked forward to reading my assignments, told me repeatedly that I was an amazing student, etc. I have kept up a loose e-mail correspondence with this professor since the class ended, asking occasional questions about the field, class, etc.?nothing overbearing of anything. In my last e-mail, I mentioned some things that have been going on in my life, and now the professor (who has an advanced degree in clinical psychology) literally thinks I need therapy! I don?t want therapy, don?t have the time, and I am having an amazing time at college so far (not depressed or anything like that), but the bigger issue is that I feel like I destroyed the best opinion of me on campus. While the email containing the referral and advice was kind and nothing if not well-intentioned, I feel like like I?ve gone from ?star student and great peson? to ?whacked out college kid.? This was a professor I would have easily gone to for a recommendation letter, taken another course from and so forth, but not now. Is there anyway I can reconfigure the relationship so that it?s once again favorable to me, or should I just resign myself to avoiding him/her for the next 3.5 years?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance.</p>

<p>PS. Before anyone starts screaming ?troll,? let me say I?m an oldtime CC poster using a different account for what I hope our obvious reasons. If you feel you must know my ?real? CC name for whatever reasons, you can PM me, but it?s not something I?d like to just broadcast on the boards.</p>

2

<p>Don't worry about it. She is a professional, and professional psychologists do not look down on their patients at all. Psychologists know that the smartest and the most successful and the nicest and the most average people can all suffer from problems. She absolutely would not hold that against you in any way at all. In fact, if you emailed her and said that you thought you were happy and healthy and whatever else (depending on what your other email to her said), but that you were open to thinking about the possibility of getting help now or in the future, I think that she would probably really respect that. (Perhaps you should think about why this woman thinks you need therapy, though--not having time isn't a good reason why not, so make sure you can think of other ones. I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but you should think about why she would suggest that.) Just keep up the relationship in the way you have been. Don't worry about it at all.</p>

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<p>I've got a doctorate in psychology, I have been a college professor, and I have suggested getting therapy to some students whom I thought highly of.</p>

<p>If a mental health professional suggests that therapy may be helpful to you, that's not an insult nor does it mean that they think poorly of you. Indeed, in U.S. culture, the more sophisticated and intelligent people are, the more likely they are to have had some kind of therapy. Why? They are most likely to turn to a professional for help if they are having problems or concerns that may be emotional or otherwise related to their mental health. At some time in their lives, probably most people could benefit from therapy or counseling, but typically only the more sophisticated and affluent (due to the availability of insurance covering mental health) get such assistance.</p>

<p>I also agree with corranged that it could be helpful to think about why the professor suggested therapy. You must have written something that indicated to her that you could benefit from therapy. One doesn't need to be seriously depressed or "whacked out" to be able to benefit from therapy or counseling.</p>

<p>BTW, I empathize with you, and I did something even more extreme than you did when I was a student. When I was in grad school studying psychology, I asked one of my professors -- a psychologist -- if he'd be my therapist. I was so embarassed when he gently told me that he couldn't treat his students. It took a while for me to realize that I needn't duck my head in shame when seeing him in class. I still got an "A" in his class and a nice recommendation for an internship.</p>

<p>Incidentally, most people who have advanced degrees in psychology have themselves been in therapy.</p>

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<p>NOrthstar is right., In fact, I believe it is a requirement for clinical psychology doctoral candidates to go through therapy theselves. That may be part of the reason your professor so freely suggests it. To her, therapy is like getting one's teeth cleaned. On the other hand, there could be something she sees that is worth exploring.</p>

<p>Either way, it won't damage your standing in her eyes. Did she give you an actual referral? Or just a suggestion?</p>

5

<p>You don’t need to worry. Professors tend to be much older than you, with more experience and less judgmental. When I taught freshman engineering class, a very good student began to absent a lot, falling way behind and one day I overheard her telling her teammates to say nice thing in her funeral. I told her after class that she should seek therapy and this is the only project that she need to do in my class to get an “A”. Then I walked her to see our assistant dean for student service and she then took over. It turn out she dropped all her class except mine. Her teammate’s friendship in class and therapist keep her together. Years later, I was team-teach the senior capstone design class where engineering students from different discipline work together, she was again in my class. She was then the top student in her department with stellar reputation. No other seems aware anything happened to her before.</p>

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<p>I'm a psychologist too and agree with all of above.</p>

<p>Northstarmom, your prof was surely flattered that you would ask him to be your therapist, though of course ethically correct to decline.</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
I feel like I destroyed the best opinion of me on campus. While the email containing the referral and advice was kind and nothing if not well-intentioned, I feel like like I've gone from "star student and great person" to "whacked out college kid."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That is how you feel, but that is not how the professor feels. </p>

<p>Enter the mind of the professor:</p>

<p>"Wow, thatkid125 is an amazing student. I really hope I get to teach him/her again. Kids like that don't come along very often. Plus: that one email he/she sent me was incredible. It takes an amazing, courageous person to even consider talking about such sensitive, personal things with a professor. I do hope he/she gets therapy. But, getting therapy has nothing to do with my opinion of his/her excellence. Either way, thatkid125 is awesome and I want to teach him/her again!"</p>

<p>
[quote]
This was a professor I would have easily gone to for a recommendation letter, taken another course from and so forth

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You still can do those things and I earnestly hope that you do!</p>

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<p>I absolutely agree with all of the above. Highly educated people do not think negatively about having therapy. In fact, I'd say that many would see it as akin to a tuneup that is helpful to keeping one running smoothly. Some people have therapy for many years, others go to a therapist when dealing with a life crisis. Thus suggesting that one have therapy is not a negative statement.</p>

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<p>Therapy in the psychoanalytic culture does not carry with it any negative connotations. Most clinical psychologists, to practice in a clinical setting, have had to undergo their own therapy - most often psychoanalysis - so they can effectively treat the patient and not have their issues get in the way. Do not view it as though the professor has any negative opinions of you. Perhaps he/she respects you enough that they felt you would be able to handle what they were telling you and make use of it.</p>

<p>However, I also believe the professor crossed the line. She is in a position of power, and, in my view, she abused it. The decision to go to therapy should be a self made - it is the most effective way, and s/he almost certainly knows that. Suggesting that you should seek counseling, while surely second nature, violates the obligations s/he had to you as a professor of academics, and nothing more. </p>

<p>The student-teacher relationship is very delicate and by doing what s/he did, made the academic relationship more difficult (as you have said), and thus failed at his/her first job; to teach.</p>

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<p>I think everyone should try therapy.</p>

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<p>thank you, descant -- from a teacher who is getting just a bit tired of everybody taking liberties with other peoples' boundaries. </p>

<p>Conversely, I read this week in the NYTimes, Randy Cohen's regular column, "The Ethicist" on a teacher who shared with a h.s. student (motivationally, I hope) the fact that she'd been helped therapeutically through suicidal thoughts, urging her student to take himself to get help in his own crisis.</p>

<p>Student mentioned the teacher's disclosure to her own therapist, who "shared" juicy news about a teacher with the school social worker (why? to protect a child or to gossip, idk). </p>

<p>Social worker had to run and tell the school principal (why? i know my "mandated reporter" laws and don't think the teacher was guilty of suspected abuse for listening out a suicidal child...)</p>

<p>In so doing, the social worker compromised the teacher's professional standing with the principal, who holds all power re: future professional evaluations, class assignments...everything.</p>

<p>Teacher was initially wrong to include herself (it's called "personalizing" and we're not supposed to) as part of urging her student to seek help. Some teachers do love to fold in their personal sagas to motivate kids towards good choices. But it's unwise and comes back to bite us sometimes. It's good to be warm and fuzzy, not good to reveal
too much to students. </p>

<p>As Randy Cohen points out at the end of his article, "everyone seems to have had benign motives. The adults were concerned with the student's well-being, and the student herself meant no harm." </p>

<p>To the OP: as you can see, these conversations can be tricky all the way around and you should feel no discouragement, hesitation or embarassment.</p>

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<p>I have never suggested that a student go to therapy. However, I have told students about campus resources, including the counseling center. Since students do not always know what is available and I have couched it as, "In case you feel like talking to someone about this, you might want to go to the counseling center." Personally I feel comfortable with that degree of interaction, but I appreciate the difficulty of making that call.</p>

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<p>"However, I also believe the professor crossed the line. She is in a position of power, and, in my view, she abused it. The decision to go to therapy should be a self made - it is the most effective way, and s/he almost certainly knows that. "</p>

<p>I disagree. The prof was no more abusing her power by suggesting that a student who disclosed some kind of concern go into therapy than the prof would have been abusing her power if she suggested seeing a physician to a student see who, for instance, disclosed having a breast lump or history of severe headaches.</p>

<p>The students whom I have suggested use the campus counseling center included: a couple of students who said they were flunking their courses (including mine) because they were depressed; a student who literally walked out of her dorm room to find the girl across the hall bleeding to death from stab wounds. </p>

<p>Other professers whom I know suggested counseling to a student who said that a marijuana addiction caused him to flunk all of his courses; and a formerly excellent student who had stopped attending classes, and whose friends had contacted my husband, a professor, expressing alarm at the student's behavior. Husband called the student, took him to lunch, and suggested that the student use the campus counseling center. Months later, the student called to thank my husband for reaching out to him and giving him a much needed push into getting help.</p>

<p>I have worked as a counselor at a college counseling center, and the counseling centers want professors to refer students to them if the professors have concerns about students' mental health. Far better to care enough about a student to give them a referral or to even walk them over to the counseling center than to have a student who commits suicide or homicide as has happened on campuses including the one where my husband works and where I used to work.</p>

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<p>I would agree. The professors have an obligation to help the student (refer them, tell other professionals) with a situation if it is is having a noticeable, consequential affect upon the student/individual.</p>

<p>However, the case that the OP described didn't seem as though there were issues of extreme, or even mild severity. Instead the professor seemed to conclude off some piece of writing/something else in passing, of the student's psychological state. And that is wrong. Without talking to the student about the issue, or seeing something visually as you described (stabbing, for instance) than it is presumptuous to assume otherwise. </p>

<p>While I'm sure the professor meant well, I don't think they evaluated the situation as well as they could have. Perhaps its not the student's psychological state that needs to be evaluated, but perhaps the professor should take a look at his/her own.</p>

15

<p>Your foot is just fine. You're the only one who knows you stumbled there for a minute. ;0)</p>

16

<p>I gotta say, I think the world of GOOD counselors. I personally have sought out counseling in college and at other key points in my life and the lives of my kids, for myself and my kids. I have never considered any of us "crazy" or "whacked out." We have never even had prolonged counseling, just a few sessions as a reality check. Many of my close friends have similar relatioships with counselors in their lives. Counselors are professionals, as much as any other healthcare professional--physicians, dentists, eye docs. It is a sign of strength, not weakness to recommend them or seek them out. Like all professions, there are excellent ones and some who may "not be a good fit."<br>
Before discarding out of hand the suggestion that you consider counseling, I'd really give it serious thought and maybe even try some of the available free campus counseling services--that's what your student fees are paying for anyway. School counselors tend to be very committed and are used to working with kids who are dealing with a lot of the same issues as you and most students.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the replies!</p>

<p>NSM,
Interesting to see that I'm not the only person who has done something like that- glad it worked out for you!</p>

<p>"Wow, thatkid125 is an amazing student. I really hope I get to teach him/her again. Kids like that don't come along very often. Plus: that one email he/she sent me was incredible. It takes an amazing, courageous person to even consider talking about such sensitive, personal things with a professor. I do hope he/she gets therapy. But, getting therapy has nothing to do with my opinion of his/her excellence. Either way, thatkid125 is awesome and I want to teach him/her again!"</p>

<p>I don't think anyone actually thinks like that, and I know this professor won't (he/she is the young, sarcastic type)-- except for maybe the thing about courage, which struck me as very patronizing and is kind of what made me feel so regretful about this-- the feeling of talking down to a screwed up person.</p>

<p>Descant,
Interesting-- I never thought of it as crossing any boundaries before, especially as he/she is no longer actually my professor. I dont think of this professor as an over-pathologizer based on the way the subject matter was approached in class.</p>

<p>Was it a referral? Uh... Maybe? It "was call xx (not the campus center but a low-cost place), tell them xy, if you can't get an appointment, tell me and I'll deal with it (Okay, that did seem a bit over the top but the intentions were good)."</p>

<p>I just literally have zero time at this point in my life, so I really don't think I can act on this now.</p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>

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<p>You feel that people who praise your work or your actions are being patronizing.</p>

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<p>"However, the case that the OP described didn't seem as though there were issues of extreme, or even mild severity. Instead the professor seemed to conclude off some piece of writing/something else in passing, of the student's psychological state. "</p>

<p>It's not possible to draw conclusions about whether the prof's reaction was over the top as the student has never posted about exactly what the student wrote to the professor. Without that specific information, none of us knows whether the prof overreacted or reacted appropriately to the student's revealing a serious problem. </p>

<p>CC is, after all, a web site in which a student posted last year about their drinking history, several parents including a physician reacted with deep concern, the student denied that he had any drinking problems, and a couple of months later, that student died of an overdose of alcohol after a drinking bout. </p>

<p>For posters unfamiliar with this, check the CC archives for info on the poster named Lucifer (the full name had a few numbers after it) who was a Cornell freshman from St. Louis who died last year after partying at U Virginia. You also can Google and find news stories about this including references to his CC posts.</p>

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<p>I don't want to repost exactly what was said (if it was a bad idea the first time...), but I can assure you I'm not a massive alcohol death risk or anything (don't drink or do drugs, pretty straight edge).</p>

<p>It's not so much what was said but HOW it was said?</p>

<p>*It takes a lot courage... Therapy would be the most courageous action (Reads like the emotional version of "you have such pretty face" to an overweight person-- having to say SOMETHING nice-sounding.)
*"make things better for you"
*"let me know how things are going, okay?" </p>

<p>The whole thing just has a very threpeutic tone to it-- not like the previous more colliqual letters that made me feel almost like an intellectual equal and someone respected for their mind, not someone who they felt a professional duty to help.</p>