Should current junior who's first in her class (and interested in Yale) homeschool her senior year?

Pre-College Issues Home Schooling and College
21

Also, currently I’m not in any clubs at my school (except for two, both of which I started with the help of other people who will probably continue them. And no, starting a club and then being president for a year hardly seems worth staying in high school for a year considering what I have planned.) So I don’t really need a guidance counselor to explain what a certain leadership position means at my school. Also, I’m not in any honor societies. (I don’t believe in school “leadership” and honor societies ideologically. They’re more about reputation than anything else.)

My science and Spanish teachers adore me and would probably write me recommendations even if I were finishing high school on the Moon. So I would have their recommendations still. In addition I’ve been working with an executive from a feminist nonprofit all this year, and probably next year as well, who could explain my unique character, accomplishments and drive.

I’m not really sure I /need/ my guidance counselor’s recommendation. I could study for SAT II’s over the summer and do really well to compare my accomplishments in my HS classes to a larger standard. That way I wouldn’t need a guidance counselor to put my grades into context. My class grades and my overall average have been above 95 since the beginning of high school (except for AP chem, in which I’ll probably get a final grade in the low 90s.) There are no abnormal grade patterns for a guidance counselor to explain.

22

Does your high school have a career practicum option? My daughter was able to find an internship at a nearby university and took three career practicum credits and an online AP class so that she could do the internship on alternating days. Her school has alternating day block schedule. She took three AP classes on her “at school day.” She gave up the chance to take three weighted AP classes because the career practicum units were not weighted, which ultimately dropped her class rank to third, but in the end she was offered an excellent scholarship at a small private school. Her high school sounds similarly inflexible to yours and she had to do a proposal and we had to help her campaign for it. She had an amazing senior year, got to do some really interesting independent research, placed in a regional science competition and got to go to the nationals, plus do a lot of fun music based activities. A lot more interesting for her and we believe it will be beneficial to her over the long haul. It is very hard for some schools to think outside the box, but not impossible.

23

@NorthernMom61 That sounds like an amazing idea. The biggest problem with that is that my school’s AP classes meet every day. So there’s no way I could get an internship and still take classes at my high school.

It turns out I have /more/ than enough credits I need to graduate (26 out of 22) but I’m short a 0.5 PE credit. Which is so frustrating. What I think I might do is take phys ed during summer school, graduate early, and then spend my improptu gap year taking MOOCs (Massive Open Online Courses) and learning the same way I would if I got homeschooled.

The only problem is that my guidance counselor wouldn’t even let me take AP Biology instead of Physics because at our school juniors in the accelerated track take AP Bio, and take Physics their senior year. He said he never had a valedictorian who who took AP Bio their senior year. That’s the level of ridiculousness my school is on. I don’t know how in the name of heck I’m going to get the administration to let me, the first in my class, to graduate early (GASP) via summer school (GASP)??? Sigh.

24

Do you know what college(s) are your safeties? Are you comfortable with attending them?

I am going to be blunt here: I think there’s a huge disconnect between your college aspirations and your desire to homeschool.

In the context of elite college admissions, I don’t think you have given very good reasons for wanting to homeschool: “I can’t both be first in my class and also achieve my full potential senior year” – “If I stay on for senior year I’ll have 4 APs and basically no time to pursue any of these projects while also applying to colleges.”

The students you are competing against for admission have done exactly what you say you can’t do: they have continued to take a full load of challenging courses while at the same time being actively involved in EC’s, athletics, or outside projects.

That doesn’t mean that it’s a bad thing to opt for homeschooling: but you’ve got to make a choice. If your goal is to attend an elite college…then I think you need to finish the path you are on. It’s true that some students who have followed a divergent path have benefited in college admissions because of the way they stand out. But they didn’t start in senior year – and I don’t think that most of them have elite college admissions as their goal, even if some of them do manage to get admitted to elite colleges.

If you want to work independently and take charge of your education, then I think you should rethink your college choices. In addition to finding a safety that you are happy to attend, you might start looking at colleges that seek out independent learners – for example, Hampshire, Sarah Lawrence, NYU Gallatin. (Though of course you need to be also aware of finances – your own parent’s ability to pay, eligibility for need based & merit aid). Or perhaps look at match/safety schools that are known for politically active student bodies.

That doesn’t mean that you can’t still apply to Yale or top LAC’s… but you need to be accept the reality that choosing to homeschool is likely to significantly diminish chances of admission. Obviously the odds are against admission in any case – that is, staying in school for your senior year is no guarantee of admission. But it puts you in the position of having to explain something odd about your school record – and again, the reasons you have given here aren’t the sort of thing that will resonate with college admissions.

So bottom line - you need to get your priorities in order. You don’t have to stay on the path that others have set for you… but you have to accept the consequences of deviating. And bottom line – at this stage, it probably is not going to help with elite college admissions.

In other words, the answer to your question, “Will homeschooling my senior year if I’m first in my class hurt my chances at top schools like Yale?” is that you should assume that the answer is “Yes, it will.”

If you are looking for someone to tell you anything different, then you probably don’t have the right mindset to follow the plan you are proposing.

25

I really can’t speak for how what you are proposing would affect your chances at an Ivy League school or not, there are many other here that are way more knowledgeable about that than me. It does sound risky to diverge from what others are writing if that is your goal. Since you only have a few credits that you need to meet your graduation requirements then that should allow for some flexibility. I guess I was trying to suggest ways you could finish at your school and still do some of what you desire. If you can’t do every other day, what about half days? Does your school offer any virtual school options? You could also take PE and AP Biology online through BYU independent study courses for a very reasonable cost. Where do your parents stand on your plan?

26

“I can’t both be first in my class and also achieve my full potential senior year. I just can’t.”

You seem almost desperate to get away from your high school. You wrote that taking 4 APs leaves no room for anything else. My Ds took 5 APs junior year. It was not a lot of work for him because he really likes math and physics and has a love for history and politics. Does your school offer a mentor ship program? If not, can you arrange for a non-credit period and shadow at a non profit?

This might be hard to read but consider stepping back from being No. 1. Go to high school your senior year with a different attititude. Take the classes YOU want to take. My son’s school allows all kinds of flexibility in courses as long as graduation requirements are met. From reading your posts, you see yourself as an independent learner who want to learn for the sake of learning. Your comments about high school give the impression that you have gotten caught up in the prestige of rankings and the need to be No. 1 at all costs. Top schools are looking for students who have passion for what they learn. Find that passion.

Graduating early and /or homeschooling will likely hurt your chance for Yale. But, then again, is Yale really the best fit for you or is Yale more about prestige?

27

I think a lot of what calmom said makes sense. OP you have to have a really good plan to make this happen and have a couple of admission (and/or financial) safeties–which you would need either way. Your senior year has to be RIGOROUS (AP, Dual Cred.) . If you can’t show colleges rigor then don’t do it. Take my word for it as just having gone through the admissions process with a homeschooler. Don’t do this because you just don’t want to take the classes, because you have to take some of those classes you don’t want to take either way. Regardless of your credit status, Yale and selective LAC’s expect four years (in high school) of the core subjects.

Your recommendations (at least one) should come from a core teacher your junior year.

If you decide to take this different path I encourage you to have a recommendation that can HIGHLY recommend you–and explain your work ethic. Previous posters are concerned that it will look like you are taking a year off for the most part–that’s a valid concern so you really have to think practically. (You will also need to create your own transcript)

Your scores and grades are not the highest Yale (Yale may possibly be a reach depending on your ECs) will see so either way, you need to have other schools to apply to. Yale sees the cream of the crop–with awards in abundance, or EC’s over the top, and some of those get rejected. If you don’t have this your top student status at your high school may be something may you want to keep for senior year.

In NY you can’t take classes at the school if you are homeschooled.

If you need/want an AP class you have to seek it out elsewhere or self teach it and take the test in May. You could have had your parent get your home class AP certified so you can call it AP but it’s too late for that now (you can’t call a class AP unless the syllabus has been approved by the College Board).

28

@ayyyyy I will concur with others that leaving school early for homeschooling your senior year could hurt your chances for Yale but in reality your chances aren’t very good in the first place. Yale is a lottery school. Nobody had a good chance of getting into Yale. Staying or leaving could be a wash either way. If you stay you look like everybody else. If you leave it could raise eyebrows or it can help you stand out. Depends on what you make of your final year and your essay.

As one poster mentioned above, you sound desperate to leave, but you are stating it is for academic and maturity reasons. That is not coming across in your original post. You sound like a whiny child who thinks she is better than her peers. That may be true but I would not show that attitude with the adcoms.

I would guess there is more going on. Most kids don’t have the need to leave their last year at school to fulfill their destiny. But if there is something going on that makes you really feel that there is no other choice (something other than thinking you are better than your peers and wasting your time doing high school academics) then I would take the time to make sure your are doing the very best homeschool curriculum you can. For this I would get off this message board and visit homeschooling boards whet you can get good advice from more families than you can here.

I would beware of dropping from the rigor of an AP program to coursera. Sure you can get certificates but you are an anonymous person who can choose to work hard or slack of and will have no grade to show the adcom which one you did. You may want to find a way to continue with AP courses outside of school so you can prove that you can handle the rigor without running away, because right now you look like you are running away. This is why I suggested virtual courses. You can do then on your own time which will allow you to be away from school but still show rigor your senior year. If you chose to build your own courses your are going to have to find a way to show rigor and that is going to be tough. Many HSers use SAT subject tests to show mastery of info but they do it before senior year.

If you decide to look at virtual as an option the CA UCs have a place where you can look and see courses that they have vetted and approved. It could help you choose. If you don’t want to go virtual I would find a place where other homeschool families can give you advice on how to make a very very good course. I don’t know much about NY but her in CA we also have co-ops that allow homeschoolers to take a course once a week in small groups. You might look for that so you can get guidance and recommendations. They are not very expensive and allow you to do lab work and have discussions outside of home study.

One more idea is to do a true distance learning like Oak Meadow where your can purchase individual classes and correspond with an instructor. They do their AP through CTY which is Johns Hopkins and for non AP independent study you can also buy their curriculum. There are many ways to go but yoy need to get more ideas than simply Coursera. Go to the homeschooling forums where people discuss curriculum and ideas.

29

But the OP also said she was interested in top LACs like Williams, Amherst, Barnard. I agree that any school with single digit admissions is a long shot, but based on OP’s grades, test scores, EC’s, and interests, I do think that she is a good candidate for admission for Barnard. And I think that her shift to homeschooling, for the reasons stated, could definitely hurt her chances there. It’s one of those things that raises a red flag and doesn’t seem to have an offsetting benefit (or tip factor).

And I am saying that as the the parent of a Barnard grad who did not follow a traditional academic route. My daughter spent a semester abroad in 11th grade, which wreaked total havoc on her high school schedule. No way about it: it hurt her weighted GPA, and clearly undermined perceived “rigor” of the curriculum.

But she did not make that choice with college admissions in mind. Quite the opposite: she did it with full knowledge and understanding that it could negatively impact college admissions. Her college list was developed and finalized after that experience, with the experience itself factored in when choosing which colleges to apply to. Could it be a hook? If so, which colleges might see it that way?

OP’s plan doesn’t seem to offer that sort of external, college admissions benefit.

But again, maybe the more important question to ask is whether OP should be reevaluating her college goals, and whether the prestige schools she is now considering are the best fit.

30

OP,

I like the fact that you are asking admissions counselors at various colleges. They should give you food for thought.

While it might not help in admissions to homeschool senior year, maybe you should follow your heart and not worry about where you’ll end up.

I do know one young lady here in California who did a homeschool program through the local school district for her senior year. She wanted more time for her photography. She was able to take 1-2 classes at her former high school, but was able to do a photography internship and have more free time.

It did not hurt her a bit, but keep in mind she was still registered in the public school system and had a public school transcript. If there is anything like that in NY, you might consider that.

Yes, it’s true colleges will be able to look at your previous high school transcripts as well as your homeschool senior transcripts. I just honestly think it would be so much work to get everything together at this stage of the game…but again, if you are determined, I would say go for it. Just do it, not because your goal is Yale, but because you think it’s the best academic path for you.

I’ve graduated two homeschooled sons. Neither one ever, ever went into learning or college applications with expecations about what colleges they would be attending/admitted to-totally true.

We were realists, and we knew that their ultimate safety school was the local community college. It turns out they were both admitted to some amazingly difficult to get into colleges, and both did better than I thought possible.

But we didn’t have any specific college as a focus, at all.

I think you can have a great senior year if you set aside your expecations about what schools you may or may not get into, and just focus on what you want to learn/do.

31

OP is in NY and CANNOT take any classes through the high school if she homeschools. Once she says she’s out then she is out.

32

I think the above poster was talking about independent study through the district. California has some pretty good independent study laws for districts who are willing to use them. Not all are willing. If the OP has an opportunity for IS through her district that could solve a lot of problems. Don’t know what NYs IS options are.

33

I know this Is hard to believe for some–but that’s why I said --“once she’s out then she is out”. NY has no options for homeschoolers. NO IS, no partial attendance–nothing. I think OP knows this but I said it so others would stop suggesting it.

34

@isaelijohjac maybe I am reading this wrong? Independent study is possible in NY. See the law below.

For a full homeschool curriculum, there does not seem to be an IS option, but for what the OP is thinking it could work as an elective. If she designed a “class” which focused on social justice, created a curriculum for the class, and got a teacher to sponsor her and supervise her it could work. This would allow her to reduce the total number of classes she would take (perhaps an English and a Math) then she could spend the rest of her time in her self designed independent study course. She would still be enrolled and it would show that the school is behind her and has approved her course, giving her the ability to show rigor. It would also really make her stand out as doing something different and interesting.

The issue with anything outside the box is that administrators are usually to busy to simply approve something different. It takes knowing the law and regulations. If the OP presented a proposal, which included a copy of the law below, as well as secured teacher support BEFORE going to the admin it could work. I did this with my unsupportive district two different times for two different kids. It took me about 2-3 months for each kid so that I could find the right channels, find supportive people, and finally get things approved. It was tough and I dealt with really difficult administrators but it was worth it for both kids.

From http://www.p12.nysed.gov/part100/pages/1005.html#d9 - states that 3 credits can be earned.

A second document dated 2015 has changed the number of credits from 3 to 6. An excerpt below:

http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/27BF8558-B895-407A-8F3F-78B1B69F030A/0/AcpolicyHighSchoolAcademicPolicyReferenceGuide.pdf

New York State Commissioner’s Regulations permit the use of independent study for elective courses. No more than six elective credits towards a Regents diploma may be awarded for independent study. Students in independent study
must be approved by a school-based panel consisting of, at a minimum, the principal, a teacher in the subject area for
which independent study credit is sought, and a guidance director or other administrator. The panel must approve the
student’s participation based on the following criteria: the student has demonstrated readiness in the subject area in
which he or she is undertaking independent study and is on track to graduate (i.e., has accumulated the appropriate
credits and passing Regents exam scores).

An independent study must be academically rigorous, align to New York State commencement-level learning standards as outlined in a syllabus, and be of comparable scope and quality to a regular course. An independent study must be overseen by a teacher knowledgeable and experienced in the subject area of the independent study. The principal, after consultation with relevant faculty, shall award credit to the student for successful completion of the independent study and demonstrated mastery of the learning outcomes for the subject.

35

@LKnomad I meant that if she were to submit a letter of intent and be officially homeschooled. My experience in NY, particularly the island is that the school district won’t be too interested in helping this student. I could be wrong. But I do think she will have to jump through hoops to make anything like this happen.Time is of the essence.

36

“Jumping through hoops” is the sort of thing that kids who really want to shape their own education will do. My daughter had to definitely jump through hoops to arrange for her semester abroad in high school. I imposed some additional requirements of my own – but insisted that my daughter do all of the talking with school staff on her own.

So I think that the independent study suggestion is a good one --and that if OP is sincerely motivated by her desire to do a human rights project as opposed to being sick of high school and looking for a way out – then I would think that OP would be willing to jump through the hoops.

37

School districts may not seem interested in helping students. This can be for many reasons. When I suggested an independent study option to the principal of my son’s middle school because my son is a figure skater, she told me that the law did not allow it. When I actually showed her the law, I had it printed out, she was shocked because she was told year after year by the district that independent study was not allowed. Once she read the law she stood up and walked over to her computer, with me in the room, and shot off an email showing her support. I was one step closer to getting what I needed. I just kept on plugging away until I had support and got a final OK, which came from the assist superintendent, and was solicited by a councillor at my son’s school who wanted to see it work. Why did she help? Her son was a hockey player. Our children had something in common and she found value in our ideas.

If the OP can find someone at school who agrees with her ideas for social justice and finds value in her project she might be able to pull it off without having to leave and with support.

@ayyyyy - Don’t know if you are still reading all this but what I have learned this past semester, as I pull my son out of school for homeschooling, is that there are a lot of options. Ideas that I never even considered suddenly presented themselves. People who I never thought would be supportive voiced their support. Look around for options. You might be surprized. BUt like @isaelijohjac stated, time is of the essence.

38

The other thing that I would add is: school administrators don’t want to do things that will make more work for them. So the key to getting something like an independent study is to set up so that there is nothing for the administrators to do except to sign off on it, and that the teacher who supervises the independent study will not have any significant increase on workload. When my daughter studied abroad, she arranged for independent study with the honors English teacher at her school. He worked with her to create a list of books to read – I remember it included Nabakov - and assigned essays to write about the books. They communicated by email – it worked so well that they continued with the independent study for the spring semester after she returned in the spring. Obviously the teacher had the work of reading and grading … but my daughter would have made even that part easy by timely turning in A quality work.

39

Seems like the goal of “human rights/nonprofit work” is nebulous at best. What human rights? What type of work? Just being a body holding a sign for anything isn’t really much of a goal. Have you formed specific goals and do you have specific skills (rather than “I’m a really good person”) that could increase the likelihood that you can impact? Do you know enough about water, regulations, geography to help people living in poverty in countries where access to clean water is restricted? Do you know enough about the political word of Western Africa to know what efforts might help but which might simply line pockets of corrupt leaders? How is your advanced math? Can you help with epidemiological studies of population growth and food access (to address some agricultural issues)? Having specific skills is far better than being good at joining a march. What skills do you bring to the fight for “human rights”?

The message the OP gives off is that she/he is done with formal instruction and knows enough to pave her/his own way. I applaud students’ efforts to do independent work. But that isn’t the message I get from OP. Seems more like she/he is above having to learn from others and above classmates as well.
Maybe Yale isn’t keen to have students who are not interested in learning what they offer but feel they have already mastered it and are ready to move on.

to OP, your list of colleges along with your statement seems to scream “fuzzy thinking”. You are at risk for avoiding all courses that would provide you with skills in favor of courses that allow you to discuss generalities and theory. Consider what skills you bring to any job-being a “good” person won’t help one bit if you have no skills to bring to the table.

40

Hadn’t read the middle few posts. And this I think is quite telling-those around her/him " who do not share my clarity and my ambition.". Most of the OP’s focus in on humanities and soft courses. Change will e brought about by people who have a good understanding of history and can write-but who have skills in science, computer science, and math. Good natured students who are good with getting behind causes don’t usually contribute much to changing the plight of the poor or to “global human rights” unless they have a good grasp of science, math and computer science. Where are the advanced classes in math and science? The Psych AP is known to be easy and not the equal to anything but a high school psych class. Chemistry counts but what about physics. Where is computer science? Is this it?

“2014 Music Theory, World History, Spanish Lang, Human Geo- all 5’s
2015 Chemistry, US History, English Lang, Spanish Lit, and Psych pending
*self-studied”

Where is Calc BC (and Calc III if you have a 5 in Calc BC), Physics C, Computer Science A, Micro/Macro Economics (less important than the others I’ve listed). I’m pretty sure a school like Yale would want to see at least those courses and maybe more (taken at the local college) covered by someone who feels she/he has already conquered what their school has to offer. Taking advanced soft courses and claiming to be done with what the school has to offer is probably a mistake unless the student has already taken these courses as a freshman or sophomore and did not list them. .

Is the OP’s school a small rural school that does not offer much?

The fact that the student does not seem to have done anything significant seems problematic to me. I don’t think Yale is in the cards anyway. In other words, staying or not, Yale seems a high high reach unless the OP is a legacy. There is nothing here suggestive of anything exceptional. I say that because nobody seems to be willing to lay thing on the line truthfully. Yale is by no means a given if she/he stays in school. Unless the courses I’ve listed have been taken with scores of 5, I can’s see that there is much here to suggest Yale. Being valedictorian is not a hook at all.

And calc 2,3 not stats (lol).