I am rather disappointed I did not get Echols (as I felt my scores, GPA, and extracurriculars were up to scratch) and it has made me begin to reconsider if I am good enough. Wondering if it is still worth it without Echols and how impactful it is on normal student life.
aka, how different student life is with/without Echols, and if the quality of life as Echols is drastically better than without it.
Sometimes, a reality check is good for the psyche, especially when you realize there are smarter, more (or equally) qualified people out there. Good luck.
Ah. I see how my statements could be misconstrued, and I apologize. I do recognize that there are smarter and better people than myself, and I’ve dealt with rejection, hell, I was deferred from Harvard and straight up rejected from Eugene McDermott. I was merely asking if there is a wide gap in the preference shown toward Echols v. normal students and if it makes it more difficult to succeed.
This is an unanswerable question, because everyone has different choices. Echols isn"t as big a difference at UVa as full-fledged honors colleges are at the schools that have them.
My spouse was an Echols Scholar (35 years ago) and I was not. He says it was actually a bad thing for him, because he was arrogant and he took classes he didn’t have prerequisites for, and nobody advised him when that was a poor choice. I would like to think advising has improved since then.
People sometimes said mean things about Echols Scholars, as often happens when there is an elite group. But the Echols housing is only for first year, so nobody would know after that anyhow.
UVa is a big enough school that it can be a problem getting the classes you want. The early registration for Echols Scholars used to be better than it is now, but it’s still an advantage worth having.
Echols makes it slightly easier to register for classes, which is particularly valuable in your first year. (1st year Echols only get some preference over other 1st year students, but are still behind 2nd, 3rd and 4th year students in registering for classes). However, I don’t believe it is that different a student experience - particularly over the course of 4 years.
As noted above, at some OTHER universities (such as Penn State), there are huge differences between being in an honors college, and not being in it. Those other universities have separate courses for the honors students, that are much smaller and more challenging than the regular courses.
Many UVa students have trouble accepting the fact that they are going from being no. 1 or no. 2 in their high school, to being an average student at UVa. I remember my son feeling uncomfortable his first semester because he was taking calculus for the first time, while everyone else in his dorm seemed to be taking much more advanced math classes.
Whether or not it is a deal breaker depends upon your other choices/alternatives.
Isn’t the acid test whether people consider its worth paying extra for UVA Echols, for example paying OOS fees rather than in-state tuition at a comparable school without an equivalent honor, say UNC, UMich or Cal/UCLA (if you are located in one of those states)? Obviously it depends how much money you have (and the amount of need-based financial aid they offer), but I wonder what the cross-admit rates are in those circumstances.
UNC has a great honors program, Honors Carolina. Much, much more of an advantage, at UNC, than Echols is at UVa.
Yes I didn’t mean those honors programs don’t exist. I meant if you got Echols but not Honors Carolina, UC Regents etc, how many would pay OOS tuition for UVA instead of just going to their home state flagship.
My S who is a 4th year (OOS) did not get into Echols. There still was no comparison to our instate Flagship, including their Honors program (which he was accepted into). He would say that it turned out to not be a big deal at all. He hasn’t really had a hard time getting into the classes that he wants/needs…and he is doing a double major. He often has had to get onto a wait list but almost always has gotten into the class. I will add…if a student is planning on applying to the Comm School and gets accepted…then you are out of Echols. Can’t do both. So it really didn’t make a difference for him as he is in Comm.
I am not sure why it would. Echols admission is supposedly done in the same holistic manner that admission is done. Not getting the invite doesn’t mean you aren’t qualified. Across the board, the common response to the stated benefits is registration advantage. That just points to one of the overall “cons”of attending a large university. Like others have said, in some schools there is a real distinction to being in an Honors program or college. Not at UVA.
My daughter goes to a smaller flagship and has never had an issue getting into classes she wanted. She may not have gotten a spot in early registration but asking the professor or waiting until the drops after the first week always works. She was complaining about the honors students and athletes getting priority registration, but it’s really never mattered.
Other daughter is an athlete and gets first registration priority. I don’t think it has been that great of an advantage.
I am currently an echols scholar at uva and quite honestly it doesn’t make or break your experience! I think the two advantages are class registration and the option of living in the honors dorm for one year. Some of the extra “advising resources” and “seminars” are very optional and people make use of them if they want to–not anything that gives echols scholars an advantage or preference. In terms of signing up for classes, my non-echols friends typically also get into all the classes they want. Even I have had to be flexible in terms of class times if I am taking a popular class with a popular professor (e.g., being okay with an 8am discussion once a week). That makes your chances of getting all the classes you want almost 100%. You also lose this privilege if you decide to apply into the Comm school or Batten.
And in terms of living arrangements, I actually opted out of living in Balz-dobie (the scholars dorm) because I wanted to be surrounded with a more representative group of students. I know some boys in Balz who aren’t echols scholars and got randomly assigned there because a shortage of echols boys, and a bunch of echols scholars living outside of balz. Balz is a nice dorm, but there is a large chance you could be randomly assigned to one of the comparable new dorms and also not have to face the slight social stigma that living in balz carries! Bottom line, you’ll be fine at uva without it.
@mocktrialgirl I saw UVA 2017 freshmen ratio was 56% female/44% male. If there is a “shortage of echols boys” what is the approximate female/male ratio amongst Echols scholars?
Also, do many Echols scholars graduate in three years? Does the lack of core requirements help much with that/prompt more people to consider it?
Many UVa students with large amounts of AP ( or other credits) when they start college do a second major, instead of graduating early. For students who are paying high amounts of tuition, there is more incentive to try to graduate early. There also are some joint bachelors/masters programs that work well if a student has large amounts of credits when they enter UVa.
@Twoin18 I don’t know the exact ratios of either echols or UVA, but a lot of the “shortage” of echols boys came from how they decided to structure Balz dobie this year. There are 5 floors, all single-gendered, and guys got 3 floors this year and girls got 2. There are some people who opt out of living in balz dobie (like I did), and I think generally more echols guys end up opting out. So altogether that accounts for the shortage of echols guys compared to the girls. I would imagine the actual echols scholar boy-girl ratio is on par with the rest of the university.
@Twoin18 I think more people consider graduating early because of the course req waiver, but a lot also depends on how many AP credits you come in with. In that regard, even a non echols scholar could come in with a ton of credits and graduate early. Something that is also common for people who come in with a lot of credits (usually echols people tend to have a lot) is double-majoring or applying to an accelerated masters’ program (in certain fields) that could have them graduating in 4 years with a bachelors and master’s degree.
My daughter graduated in 2011. She loved UVa. The campus, the student body, the scope to intereact with the faculty, the weekends at the restaurants, the climate and the number of friends with whom she shared those marvellous 4 years. She could complete he double major ahead of 4 years and her academic foundation was no inferior to those with Echols! My wife and I had been to UVa a number of times and trust me it is an amazing place to spend your undergrad years.