<p>Quick question: Should a student applying to very selective schools with a not so stellar GPA but great test scores attempt to address the discrepancy in the essay?
Student is:</p>
<p>First generation white male in KY
National Merit Semi finalist
AP National Scholar
various school awards/book awards
award winning essayist
6 year history of intense volunteer work with local homeless organization (including organizing youth from multiple high schools into a cohesive fundraising and education group).
Full IB Candidate
Furman Scholar
Centre Fellow
nominated for Jefferson Scholar
attended TASP in 2008
Governor's Scholar recipient (turned down to attend TASP)
SAT 800m, 750cr, 750 writing (one take)
SATII 800 Math2, 800 US history, 740 chemistry
APs 5 in stats, english comp, macro econ, apush, world history, us gov; 4 in physics and chemistry (school only offerred to world history, took remainder either on line or self taught).</p>
<p>GPA: 3.61 unweighted, school doesn't offer weighted. Routinely aces tests but fails to consistently turn in homework. Nonetheless is pretty much adored by teachers.</p>
<p>So-- Should essay address why student is getting so many B's when recommendations from teachers read that he is the most intelligent, thoughtfully analytical student they have ever taught?</p>
<p>I would not try to attract much attention to it, they will probably see it as nagging/begging. I don’t undrstand if he was so smart and aced tests and quizzes why he would not just turn in the homework. That is usually the easiest part because you have all night to revise and do it.</p>
<p>At this point I would try to make the essay his/her own and not make light of grades or you will probably severely hurt your chances. Just apply the best you can, but it tis’ a real shame he could not have pulled his grades higher, then he would be an exceptionally strong candidiate.</p>
<p>Still considering though, he sounds like a great guy and it sounds he has accomplished a lot. I am sure he will do well. Apply to private schools too, because usually publics are more rigid in their acceptances GPA wise… and apply to a good number of safety, reach, and match schools.</p>
<p>Edit- A 3.61 is still a great GPA by almost anyones standards… just keep working.</p>
<p>Good luck to you and your son.</p>
<p>Let me reitterate- Do not focus on grades/Ec’s/awards unless it involves something that makes you… you. Do not say, “I got blah grades because blah did not turn HW”, he will just be seen as even lazier…</p>
<p>Grades would have to be worse and there would have to be a better reason for them (ill health, family problems, etc.) before I’d mention grades.</p>
<p>I had the same question when son was writing essays–people here told me (rightly so, I believe) not to use the essay to justify/explain things–use the essay to show son’s unique voice and personality. That was good advice–I’d imagine the same would apply in your student’s case.</p>
<p>I agree that the student shouldn’t address the grades in his essay. It’s pretty hard to do without sounding like a whiner, or worse. But for a student like this, I think the counselor and teacher recommendations are extremely important, and could be a good place to address the issue briefly. Could your son meet with them to ask how they might be able to help in this regard?</p>
<p>You have to hope that the teachers write the right kind of essays, because there’s no good way for the student to justify not handing in homework. If a teacher says “My hands were tied I had to give him a B, but I loved him” that’s one thing, but from a student it just sounds like he thought he thought he was above homework. Use the essay to tell a school what’s good about you.</p>
<p>I’ve got a different set of questions:
a) What is going to change when your son starts college?
b) Is your son looking at colleges that will be a good match for his interests and learning style? </p>
<p>I think that he has to address and acknowledge the issues that impacted his performance for himself and use that knowledge when selecting a college. You did not say which “very selective” schools he is looking at. There may be schools that meet that definition that will fit his needs, but it is equally likely that the best fit schools will be found among some that are not as competitive. </p>
<p>I see that awhile back you started a thread called “Brilliant meets Doesn’t Give a Crap!”. The problem is that it’s pretty easy to do serious damage to a college record by blowing things off in the first couple of semesters. Some of the most selective colleges are places that tend to attract very competitive kids – the type who battle one another over the last hundredth of a grade point in order to become valedictorian – and when they get to college they stay that way: very focused, very much obsessed by grades, intense. Are these the kids that your son wants for his future classmates?</p>
<p>I think some parents like to tell themselves that the brilliant-but-unmotivated kid will find his fire if only he is at a place that provides sufficient challenge – there are always stories floating about concerning late bloomers who did exactly that – but the flip side of the coin are the college drop outs, or the ones who managed to flunk out of Big Name U and ended up patching things up at the community college. </p>
<p>So, my advice as the mom of a son who entered Prestige LAC in 2001 and graduated from Anything Goes State College in 2008 is: </p>
<p>Don’t push; </p>
<p>Don’t do things for your son – he needs to do things for himself to build self-reliance – you aren’t going to be there to wake him up in the morning or remind him to study next year; </p>
<p>Act on the assumption that your son is likely to run into some academic issues in college, and plan accordingly: choose a college that you can afford if it takes extra semesters to graduate, and/or one that is somewhat flexible about course requirements, in the event that some creativity is required to patch it all together. A college that gives a lot of credit for AP or other avenues to earn credit by examination will be a big plus. </p>
<p>Be honest with yourself: if your son needs to “explain” poor grades to justify acceptance into Prestige U… maybe that’s really not the best fit. There are a huge number of colleges that would be delighted to have a kid with your son’s test scores and grades – and they may really be the places where your son can and will excel. Don’t make the mistake of thinking those colleges aren’t good enough – it simply isn’t true.</p>
<p>Thanks to all for the replies.
Calmom, you bring up some interesting points, but ds doesn’t quite fit the picture you have of him (although I understand completely how with the limited info here, you could come to that picture). DS doesn’t need reminders to study, he loves studying just about anything and performs very well on tests and papers. He is less consistent with “busywork” type homework. My understanding is that in most college classes grades are very heavily weighted towards tests and papers with virtually no homework assigned, so I don’t think that will be as much an issue for him. He is highly motivated toward research and writing, which, I believe, are usually rewarded in college.
The schools that he is applying to allow a great deal of flexibility in putting together various interests and offer coursework in most to all of his interests. He may well not gain entry into those schools-- but I completely support his applying. He is also applying to less selective schools.<br>
I am baffled as to how people determine “fit”, when a prospective student is unsure of major. We have visited 6-7 schools and read about many more. He liked some and he is applying to those and schools that read as similar, but I don’t think he will really know if one “fits” until he has actually studied there for some time.
You are completely right that I will not be there to help him-- but I don’t help him now with completely work or organizing his time (although I do research college options and bring them to his attention).</p>
<p>“Act on the assumption that your son is likely to run into some academic issues in college” Hmmm. No. He has taken an astonishing load in highschool – managing to become an AP National Scholar and a full IB candidate while never getting less than a B in a class. He will be entering college with 50 plus credits-- which should allow him quite a bit of wiggle room. As a parent, I will fully underwrite exactly 4 years of undergraduate study. Anything more will be fully his responsibility.</p>
<p>Dierdre, you said that your son’s grades reflect that he sometimes blows off what he perceives as busy work. My son’s first 2 years of college grades were a mix of A’s & D’s & incompletes. The A’s are in the toughest courses. The bad grades were the courses he decided at some point were no longer worth his energy & effort – maybe he didn’t like the prof, maybe he didn’t like the assignments … who knows? </p>
<p>Some college courses require a LOT of homework – math courses and many science courses typically have regular assignments of problem sets or lab reports. For example, my d. has complained of being up until 3 am working on problem sets. </p>
<p>There are some college courses where grades are determined only by exam or from writing major papers, but it seems to me that both my kids have pretty regularly had to turn in some sort of “homework” during college. That may be part of the “fit” issue – finding out in advance what general ed requirements are at a particular college, what is typically required for course work. However, grading practices and course work are generally determined by the professor, and so it is not generally something you can really plan for in advance.</p>
<p>To think a kid who blew off things over bordom in HS will find salvation in college may be wishful thinking, which is why most kids who need to offer a college excuses is unlikely to get in. DS1 was one of these kids and I was one of the wishful thinkers! He did not get in anywhere his grades did not suggest he would get in. He needed to learn some life lessons including that he needed to do the busy work in school and at work to get to the good part. When he did, and mastered it he got into a top grad school.</p>
<p>Calmom-- I think you are probably right that individual professors determine what will be used for grading. I don’t think research for “fit” will help ds there.</p>
<p>In my son’s highschool, homework is required to make up 25% of grade, final exams cannot be more than 3.5% of total grade. 93% is required for an A minus. My son has a 3.6 with a course load of 7 academic solids in a 7 period day. It takes very few missed or late homework assignments to shift an average down to 92. Yes, he absolutely could be getting all A plusses (99-100s) in all classes by consistently turning in homework (and getting it in on time), but I doubt that most college classes are weighted in the same way. As he has never gotten below a B in highschool, I am not overly concerned that his grades will drop to Ds in college, but of course it is possible that he will become a party animal and stop showing up at classes (a risk I guess whenever a kid goes away on their own).</p>
<p>I want to emphasize that ds is applying to schools in a wide range of selectivity. I only mentioned the question in regard to selective schools because we assume that the 3.6 and high test scores will get him into the less selective places on his list.</p>
<p>Dierdre, part of the concept of “fit” is the overall attitude and academic culture of the school. You can’t predict what an individual professor will do, but you can get a sense of how the students relate to faculty, how “open” and frequent communications are among students and faculty, how authoritarian vs. egalitarian the overall structure is. At a large university this can vary considerably from one department to another, and it was a huge factor for me in choosing my major. But one can still get an overall sense of campus culture and educational philosophy. </p>
<p>In any case, the answer to your first question is that the college essay should reflect the student’s strengths, not weaknesses. Problems should be referenced only if the subject of the essay is “how I met and overcame a challenge”. There is a part on most applications, separate from the main essay, where students are asked if there is any other info the college should know, and that’s the place for explaining weaknesses… but that is only useful if there is a good explanation. Your son doesn’t have a good explanation for not doing his homework, though it may very well be truthful in terms of his personal assessment as to the value of the assignments he didn’t bother to turn in. So unless he can think of a way to turn a negative into a positive, I don’t see what he could say to help with college admissions.</p>
<p>I think hmom5 has it right: a kid who needs to offer a college excuses is unlikely to get in. I’m just adding that once getting in… those excuses aren’t going to work any more. If the attitude doesn’t change, it’s pretty easy for a kid to fall quickly behind & get overwhelmed.</p>
<p>Is the son planning to write the above in his essay? If this is the reason for his grades, I don’t think mentioning this is going to help him with admissions. In addition, if he says he gets bored with what he perceives as “busywork” and doesn’t complete it…that also won’t help his acceptance at selective schools. </p>
<p>The best thing he CAN do for himself is start to turn in the work…ALL OF IT…even the busy work…on time in hopes that his midterm grades in January are more reflective of the fine student he supposedly is.</p>
<p>And for the record…agreed with others…there are plenty of courses in college that still have homework on a daily basis. Most math courses do, and also many science courses do. Both of my kids also had writing courses that had frequent short written pieces that had to be turned in as part of the grade. </p>
<p>I know you weren’t asking for advice about colleges…but what the student perceives as “busywork” and what the professors’ expectations are may not always be the same. If the teacher assigns the work…and expects it to be turned in…it won’t matter what the student’s perception is. If it’s not turned in…it will be a zero just like in high school.</p>
<p>Thanks all - the consensus is clearly that the essay should not attempt to explain the B grades and should instead focus on some more positive aspect. I think Calmom is probably correct that schools vary in culture and that my son would have an easier time at schools that match up with his assessment of what is important-- I am leaving it to him to figure which schools are the best fit for him.<br>
Thumper, he has reluctantly agreed that he must put his best foot forward as a senior and has produced all As for the first two grading periods.</p>
<p>In answer to the OP’s question:
I would say that the answer is no. A discussion of one’s high school grades is not a good use of the essay opportunity part of a college application.
IMHO</p>
<p>Your son has made a choice and all choices have consequences. If he’d done his homework, he would not have this problem. I doubt your son is going to want to draw attention to that.</p>
<p>Linda, I am so sorry for you and your daughter’s loss. I think you are mistaken in the belief that “no one cares”, I don’t even know you and I am touched by your story.</p>
<p>OTOH, I doubt that the world is filled with cancer ridden students pulling down 4.0s. I think CC tends to really skew our perception of what average achievement is. </p>
<p>I am a little puzzled by the range of opinion re ds here. When I post a thread a while back I was widely encouraged not to discourage him from applying anywhere, while this thread seems to have elicited an almost angry response…</p>
<p>DeidreTours–I’d still encourage your son to apply anywhere (it’s what we did w/my son–he applied to a staggering # of schools…many seemed like huge reaches & he likely won’t get into a majority because of gpa [not test scores]). But, amid all that applying he already got into a school that is among the top 10 in the country for his major (who knows if we can pay for it/etc. but at least it’s on the table!).</p>
<p>It’s just a matter of (I think) creating at application that best reflects the student’s strengths. In your son’s case, likely mentioning the homework thing wouldn’t be to his advantage (as mentioned)—however, w/his other strong qualities, I can’t see any reason he should apply to certain schools he deems attractive but reaches.</p>
<p>Additionally–just adding my condolances to LindaC–how hard that must have been.</p>
<p>Deidre, I don’t think it’s anger, just a lot of eye rolling over all the excuses we read here on CC. As a parent who has been in your situation, I know it’s sometimes hard for people to look at your child’s reasons for not getting the grades he could the same way that you do.</p>
<p>Everyone was certain that DS1, who’s now a grad student at MIT but attended not so great college, was not as bright as we thought he was. As a parent I was not that bothered by his refusal to play the game required to do well in school because he excelled at so many things. But it was a crisis of sorts for him when decision letters rolled in. In the end he came to his own conclusion that playing life’s little games was necessary to achieve his goals and all is well.</p>
<p>I think you’re hearing here what I heard when DS was rejected from most of his schools which is that we should have expected the consequences, which in hindsight is true.</p>