@PNWedwonk I think you missed the point. #38 was saying that it is just as ridiculous to require AP as it is to require shop class (although I personally think some slightly-above-basic knowledge of shop, home ec, and plumbing would have served me greatly in my years as a homeowner - I’ve been trying to figure out how to install crown molding for two years).
@tutumom2001 you are right about what #38 said, I know because I wrote it! Not sure what point I missed, or if someone else missed a point? 
I agree that some basic shop knowledge would be helpful for most people, but if someone would rather take IB Math HL, for example, I think they should be allowed to.
I guess, one basic point to address is what is truly necessary for a core HS curriculum? What should be required vs. left to the student and family to decide? I believe the states determine a minimum? But I know individual Districts and Schools can get waivers and can apply additional requirements. In WA state, passing all of the requirements for an IB diploma gets you a WA state HS diploma, even though it doesn’t leave time for all of the other requirements – including PE: virtually all IB diploma candidates at my kid’s school got PE waivers. There was just no time in the schedule (six period day) for PE, IB classes, language and an elective.
It’s a terrible idea.
My younger D consistently tested in the 90+% for abilities through middle school. This year as a sophomore she took two AP classes (APWorld and AP Comp Sci) and got C’s in them both. She is super bright, but has no interest in doing all that work and doesn’t love the idea of being an academic. Next year she’s looking forward to all regular classes and “not feeling stupid”.
I can’t imagine what a nightmare an APUSH class would be for a kid that is typical IQ and non-academic-that would suck! Stop trying to shove square pegs into round holes for the sake of prestige.
@PNWedwonk wrt requiring shop-the skills required to pass a shop class are much more rudimentary than the ones required to pass APUSH. I know; my father and grandfather were carpenters, and I aced wood shop. It was ludicrously easy, and anybody with a pulse could have passed. This is not to diss carpenters or shop class (obviously) but you really can’t compare the two.
@MotherOfDragons Were kids required to take shop? Maybe shop could be more challenging if the only kids who enrolled were kids who really wanted to take it. Maybe there should be some prereq or sign off by the shop teacher? When shop is required, I’m sure many square pegs get shoved in there. 
No. You are entirely missing internal consistency in your analogy.
The consistent analogy is to require AP-level shop, rather than just an introductory-level exposure to a subject.
@PNWedwonk I was required to take wood shop, automotive shop (but convinced them to let me take wood shop again), and home economics, but my 2 kids are not. It was incredibly easy to pass those classes, which is why I don’t think it’s a good comparison to AP classes.
They do end up doing a lot of “shop” work through robotics (after school in the school, which has an incredible shop department), and “shop” is an elective class. There are so many elective classes that the kids can take nowadays that none of them are mandatory anymore-you can find an elective that matches up with your interest. D17 is taking sculpture, and D18 is taking Technical Theater as electives.
In my opinion, AP classes should be optional for those kids with the grades and the study habits to be successful at them.
@GMTplus7, I guess I can see that, we do require intro level LA, Math, History etc. I think I missed that point because I don’t know of any schools that offer advanced shop, home ec etc anymore, let alone require them.
There are MANY schools that offer zero AP & IB courses, including my kids’ 2 different high schools. Their schools do offer honors-level courses which are challenging but do not have dictated curriculum.
I went to an engineering-focused high school that required everyone to take, at a minimum, 3 different technical classes: wood shop, metal shop, and technical drawing. They were not easy classes! And no one got a 100 in those classes, because that level of mastery (every measurement and detail perfect) was not achievable, but if you put in the effort and considerable time, you could earn an A. That worked at my high school since it was a specialized high school with a specific curriculum that students should have been aware of before they tried to test in. But it is not a good idea for a regular high school with students of varying abilities and interests. Neither is requiring AP or IB courses.
In the US, those schools would probably be outliers at the high and low end of the spectrum.
a. A small number of elite high schools who design courses that they see as better than AP or IB courses.
b. A probably larger number of poor quality high schools where student demand and ability to succeed in AP or IB courses is so rare that it is not worth offering them.
The middle range to good high schools (and some elites not in category (a) above) take AP or IB courses and curricula because it is convenient to do so in order to offer something for their more advanced students. Most of them probably would not be able to design their own advanced courses any better than AP or IB courses.
“Most of this discussion has been about AP classes. Two of the three IB programs in town require all juniors to take Lang and Lit. I think this is even worse than requiring an AP Lit class because you can’t test unless you take the 2nd year of the IB class as well, so you couldn’t get any college credit for the junior year of the class.”
In our IB program Juniors take AP lang, seniors take AP lit, and together they are the 2 year HL English course. So you do get credit for junior year, assuming you pass the AP Lang test.
However, aren’t IB programs themselves selective in that they are specifically for college-bound students, unlike a general high school that offers AP courses that students may choose to take or not take?
Interesting @VickiSoCal. D’s school offers “Lit HL” and “Lang and Lit HL” No SL or AP Lang or Lit class is offered. My understanding is that the two other IB programs in town ONLY offer “Lang and Lit HL” (following the IB curriculum, not the AP curriculum) and both require every student at the school to take it as a junior. Maybe some of those students do take the AP Lang or AP Lit exams? I’ll have to ask around. I didn’t know that the IB and AP curricula were close enough to combine in that way. (D16’s IB Lit class seemed significantly different than S12’s AP Lit class.)
Almost every IB class at her school is designed to also cover the AP tests. HL English is broken in to two years of AP lang/AP lit. HL History of the Americas is broken in to first year APUSH second year, everything else. HL Chem student all take the AP test too, SL Econ kids take the AP tests. HL Spanish is AP Spanish Lang first year, Spanish Lit second year. And so on.
I suppose it helps kids going on to colleges that don’t give credit for as many IB classes as they do AP.
Our school encourages every student to take 1 AP class and no it hasn’t diluted any of the courses and our pass rates (3 or higher) are incredibly high. Some courses have 100% pass rates. All of our honors and AP classes are open enrollment for anyone who chooses them (except the Calculus classes and physics C which have pre-reqs). Some of the honors classes aren’t too challenging but the APs stay on course. Our district also has a college like policy of no more than 10% of a grade can be homework and final exams are 20% of the final grade. They have an informal policy of no extra credit assignments but one test re-take for test grades lower than an 80.
I’m ok with not making students take “practical” skills classes (I really can’t think of another word, forgive me) like basic plumbing, electrician skills, etc. I was a journeywoman plumber and made extra side cash every once in a while when my college friends couldn’t figure out why their toilet wouldn’t flush (or whatever) 
(Of course, I’m saying this as a semi-joke but I do think we need to offer far more trade skills classes.)
Also, IB programs and schools are different than a regular school/typical program. I don’t personally know of any school districts which forces people into IB programs.
@dcplanner , what percent of the students do take an AP class? What are the school’s FRL and ELL rates? (trying to figure out if my apples are comparable to your oranges.)
Btw- it’s insurance and liability issues that have eliminated “traditional” shop classes from many schools. The HS where I teach does offer a very popular elective called “skills for living” where you learn some basic sewing, cooking, home repair/ maintenance sort of stuff. It is a “fluffy” grade- but full every semester - and actually really useful! 
There’s another thread running about the relevance of algebra. Basic sewing, cooking, home repair/ maintenance is arguably a lot more useful for a huge number of students.
Sorry @PNWedwonk , I meant post #37, not your #38 I’ve had a trying week.