<p>For those of you with rising seniors, you may want to lobby to make sure your HS profiles reflect the requirements to be admitted into an AP course. Based on this, it appears that some HS have no requirements while others are very strict......Not sure that the higher scores on the exams compensate for the fact that other states have more participants in the courses......Opinions?????</p>
<p>APs should be college courses, not the “new honors” as seems to be the case in places like Florida and Northern Virginia. </p>
<p>I also think any school that does not have an average score above 3 needs to re-think its approach to AP courses. I doubt that Jay Matthews would agree with this, though.</p>
<p>Regarding what the HS should report, a good point. Schools receive the full profile of scores for their kids who take the exams. If the news is good, the school should consider a supplement to the profile reflecting this. For example, at my D’s HS, over 90% of the kids who took the exams in Bio and Chem received 5, if I recall correctly. Keep in mind, though, that colleges should receive some information for scores from exams taken Jr year, as this info is often on the transcripts, and most applications ask for them too.</p>
<p>newmassdad: Many school profiles reflect a lag; that is, the school profile sent out for the 2008 grads was based on the graduating class of 2006, but I do agree that if AP scores are particularly impressive it should be reflected; unfortunately not all guidance offices are that “in touch”…or up to date…</p>
<p>It has been discussed before on these boards that sometimes GCs need a shove to prepare a decent profile for their school! Sad but true, and something that parents of rising seniors really should pay attention to. For public schools that are not in unresponsive mega-systems (e.g. Dade County, FL, Montgomery County, MD or any large city) parents can make a difference.</p>
<p>I am probably in the minority here but - I think that EVERY high school student who is planning on attending a 4 year college should take at least ONE AP class their senior year. minimum.
I think it is nonsense that we should expect kids to either take 5 ap classes or none, likewise I think that any kid who desires to take an AP class should be allowed that option.</p>
<p>Our high school pays for the AP exam. A lot of kids take one or more AP courses. Do some get one’s? yes. But many others get 3’s or higher who never thought they could. It is a win/win.</p>
<p>IMO - the number of students taking an AP class is more important than how many got 5’s.</p>
<p>My children attend one of the districts named in the article. Our school does have requirements to get into an AP course, but it’s not hard at all. Any student who performs decently can get into at least one. However, the school does not pay for AP exams - the fee was $ 104 PER EXAM.</p>
<p>Regarding the Cherry Hill district – “The kids who are doing well will still do well, you’re just adding other kids to the mix,” –
Anecdotally, my d notices a huge difference in the kids who are on the honors/AP track overall, and those who are taking mostly regular classes, with just 1 - 2 APs thrown in for college apps. Her xxx class had several complainers who just weren’t used to the work load - and it is considered one of the easiest APs.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, this article only looks at kids taking the test - not enrollment in AP courses. For the AP Language & AP Lit classes, most kids only take one of the AP exams even if they take both courses, because a lot of colleges only give max 3 credits for either/or - not both.</p>
<p>Also NJ has 316 school districts, some with very small high schools, others with very large (2500+ students) high schools - so policies vary greatly by school district.</p>
<p>Our high school pays for the AP exam.
Ours doesn’t.</p>
<p>With SAT tests, college app fees and costs of graduation, junior/senior year is expensive and some of us, do not have the funds.
Oh yeah, if you qualify for FRL AP tests are cheaper, however- how many make less than $ 30,000 for a family of 4? Generally if you are that broke you are working your a$$ off to make more.</p>
<p>Actually Northeastmom, there are 616 school districts in NJ. Only 79 districts are consolidated, or regional in nature. Thus, the fiefdoms do as they please, with wide gaps in quality.</p>
<p>My town just this year changed the AP policy. Any student taking the course must sit for the test, and the district picks up the course. My understanding is that many of the non-serious students who just wanted GPA weighting avoided these courses. Now the classes can move at a true college pace & I would expect the passing rates to climb.</p>
<p>D’s Catholic school has strict requirements for entry into AP classes & the test is mandatory. Many classes have 100% of the girls earning 5s.</p>
This is the Jay Matthews argument. It is also why colleges don’t pay much attention to having “taken” an AP course at a lot of HS. It is also why many of the smarter kids are so frustrated - you think these kids getting 1s on the exams make for a stimulating classroom atmosphere?</p>
<p>APs were designed (and intended) to be college level courses, not HS enrichment classes. But Jay Matthews et al want to use them for enrichment and social engineering…</p>
<p>I think there are a few ways to look at this…</p>
<p>One is to say that NJ is aiming for quality, not quantity in its AP programs. If I read it correctly, NJ students who take an AP test are more likely to pass than the “average” American kid.</p>
<p>But, OTOH, there’s a disparity in how the hundreds of districts admit students to the classes. Perhaps if those that strictly limited enrollment loosened up, the lag would decrease. </p>
<p>Personally, I like the way it’s handled where we live. Any student can take any class of any level (assuming prereqs are compelte). If a grade-level kid takes an honors or AP course, he better be willing to get C’s or D’s on the report card. This risk is clearly outlined MULTIPLE times in all AP course literature…almost to the point of scaring people away. But, if you’re not scared, you’re let in. Good luck and buyer beware.</p>
<p>With 616 school districts, NJ does not have a unified policy - “NJ” is not aiming for anything, other than keeping the NJEA happy.</p>
<p>Even in those districts that have admission reqs, it is still not hard to get into at least one AP course. The parents & students are made aware from 6th grade on, of the admission reqs for higher level courses. Appeals can be filed, and even then another appeal after that. </p>
<p>If a teen can’t bother to take any advanced courses in gr 7 - 8, or honors courses in 9 - 10 grade, why should they all the sudden be allowed into an AP course ?? I get frustrated when I hear parents talk about easing into HS with no honors courses (b/c they’re too stressful or hard or whatever)- then in 11th gr when college is on the horizon they’re upset because their child doesn’t qualify for AP.</p>
Yep - and it works… have to disagree with the rest. the “smart” kids in our HS are not frustrated at all.</p>
<p>this is how it works - smallish, average public high school - many kids expect to go to college early on but there are still a lot of first generation college hopefuls and kids who don’t know their potential. Not to mention parents who are not sure if college is “worth it”.</p>
<p>Rules - Anyone can sign up. School pays for the test and it is required as a part of the course. last year no one missed the test.
The school pays for and requires AP teachers to attend summer AP workshops. they must attend one before they can teach an AP class. Our AP classes are all “recognized” by the college board.
They are not watered down. 14 AP classes are offered and the junior year is the earliest anyone can sign up. Our AP English class is a senior class and the kids take both tests - Lit and Lang. My d got a 4 and a 5 and last year about 80% of the class passed both tests.</p>
<p>My own kids would not have taken any AP Tests if I had to pay for it - my d2 went to college with 20 credits. Most kids at our hs would not take any AP tests if they had to pay - too ‘risky’ financially.</p>
<p>Some kids do drop the course - they find out two weeks in that the work is too much or they didn’t complete their “summer” homework - which all of our AP courses have.
Most kids pass the tests - we get a lot of kids who get 3’s who are looking no further than the local state college. This proves to them, their senior year that they can tackle college work.</p>
<p>This is not about padding the resume of superstar students for Harvard - it is about giving high school seniors (mostly) a boost - give them a chance to earn credit and prove that they can perform in college. Guess what? It works.</p>
<p>Newmassdad, In Va it is not that unusual for students enter VA state schools with sophomore and even junior status. This is not based on hard numbers, but son’s observation only. This saves parents a lot of money. I think that for middle class and poor families this is some perk one might get by attending hs in VA!</p>
<p>[If a teen can’t bother to take any advanced courses in gr 7 - 8, or honors courses in 9 - 10 grade, why should they all the sudden be allowed into an AP course ?? I get frustrated when I hear parents talk about easing into HS with no honors courses (b/c they’re too stressful or hard or whatever)- then in 11th gr when college is on the horizon they’re upset because their child doesn’t qualify for AP.]</p>
<p>That’s why I think AP qualification is pointless. If a “non-honors” kid wants to be allowed in AP, then let him in. AP is a sink or swim course. Either you can cut it or you can’t. It’s not a place where teachers “dumb down” the content to the lowest common denomitator. </p>
<p>The unqualified student who enrolls just so he can list it on the college app is probably cutting off his nose to spite his face. The class may look good, but that “D” sure doesn’t. </p>
<p>Too bad for him. But, why should I care? I’m not trying to be snarky. I just can’t see a reason to care about the other kids’ status as qualified or not.</p>
Unqualified kids will dramatically drag down the level of classroom instruction & discourse. In fact, if kids can’t keep up & the teacher must work with them, the curriculum will never be covered.</p>
<p>[Unqualified kids will dramatically drag down the level of classroom instruction & discourse. In fact, if kids can’t keep up & the teacher must work with them, the curriculum will never be covered.]</p>
<p>Aha! Now I understand. I guess my perspective is tainted by a different experience. </p>
<p>Son’s teachers don’t wait for the unqualifieds to keep up. They don’t work with the ones falling behind during the class period. The class is full steam ahead with strict adherance to the sylabus schedule. If you’re falling behind and need to work with the teacher, there are ample after-hours opportunities. </p>
<p>Like I said before, it’s sink or swim. This is AP and you are here voluntarily.</p>
<p>I think it is reasonable to have some minimal qualifications for AP courses. After all, Varsity sports have try-outs. Advanced orchestra, chorus & band have auditions. Many ECs have some qualifications required. Why is it so hard to accept that pre-screening may be required by some HS for an AP course ?</p>
<p>If my kids can’t “cut-it” on the Varsity Soccer team - they get kicked off. The team doesn’t play around him, make allowances, spend extra practice time with him. He’s sent home. The time that is spent on the under-qualified kid in the AP class does impact the time spent on teaching the entire class, and on making progress through the curriculum.</p>
how many are graduating in two or three years? I bet some still take 5 years to graduate.</p>
<p>Dougbetsy - you are correct. Stickershock must not have read my post. The teachers cover the AP curriculum. Kids either keep up or drop.
This is more about elitism than giving kids a chance to reach their potential. After all if you weren’t smart in 7th grade then there is no hope for you.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s elitism. None of these posts has mentioned anything about being “smart in 7th grade.” I don’t think anybody here advocates hard-core tracking based on middle-school status. </p>
<p>Restricting AP courses to minimal requirements regarding GPA or motivation is not elitism. It’s an acknowledgement that kids have different skill levels & interests and might be suited to a different course. It’s also an administrative response to allocating scarce resources - AP qualified teachers in an over-enrolled, under-budgeted HS, in our case. </p>
<p>Theoretically, the AP courses should proceed at the necessary pace to cover the curriculum. That may work if there are just a few students in difficulty. But if there are more than a few, the teached is hard-pressed to keep moving forward when multiple students are not demonstrating mastery. I think that this is probably true for any class - when some critical mass of students is falling behind, the entire class gets dragged down.</p>