If you need financial aid, is there no way you’d be eligible for a fee waiver so that you can apply to both schools?
Otherwise…it’s going to be really tough, if not impossible to get into Pomona. 90%+ of the enrolled student body ranked in the top 10% of their class and 100% in the top 25%. While Pomona doesn’t calculate an average GPA I’d be certain it’d rank well above a 4.0. I don’t know a single student who didn’t have a 4.0+ or close to it- lowest being a 3.7.
You have to think of it like this- 3% chance to get into Pomona with 30K aid, or 35% chance to get into Brandeis with 25K aid.
I think what people are trying to say is that the potential for better FA is a worthless proposition for you if you have little to no chance of getting in. With one application spot remaining (by your choice), it’s a high-risk/high-reward scenario. And the high risk is certain, while the high reward is unknowable.
By your calculation, every decent student who needs FA should apply to Stanford and Yale because, who knows, they might get in—the admissions committee might see something special in them—and if they do, the financial aid will be amazing!
Brandeis’s admission rate is 37%, Pomona is 9.1% and Chicago is 8.9%.
According to Pomona’s website for the class of 2020: “Students admitted to the Class of 2020 are academically outstanding. From high schools that rank, 92 percent are in the top decile of their class, 18.9 percent are valedictorians and another 9 percent are salutatorians. Median SAT scores are 730 critical reading, 730 math and 740 writing. The median ACT is 32.”
Your ACT will get you consideration, but I don’t think your GPA is competitive. I think the same is true for Chicago.
Brandeis is probably a low reach for you.
Georgia Tech is also more of a reach than a match with your GPA. Also if you are out of state, the admissions rate is only 23%.
Have you consulted with your guidance counselor about your list? There may be other options that are more likely for your stats.
A bit off topic but I am amazed at a lot of these schools whose stated “average” GPA is 4.0 (they don’t necessarily specify weighted vs. unweighted). There seems to be more variation in ACT/SAT score for the mille 50% than for GPA in some schools.
But given that is sometimes the case, a 3.4 UW GPA is a real longshot at top colleges. If you think about it, you would likely be a longshot at your own high school for a short list of academic all stars while Pomona is top college drawing from the entire country with 8100 applicants for a freshman class of <400.
“I’m just personally not of the belief that a GPA number in and of itself can knock a candidate out of a holistic consideration”
But this question isn’t subject to belief. It’s subject to observation. Lots of us have observed many students before you. As a high school student, you have never gotten to see anyone else’s application to any school. We’re offering you the benefit of our experience. Holistic review means a lower GPA must be balanced by something extraordinary relative to Pomona’s applicant pool. You haven’t told us that you’ve got anything to balance it that Pomona needs in terms of demographics, skills, or preparation. If you’re a first-generation Native American kid from rural Maine who’s a national-level speed skater at Milton (or any of the above), fill us in.
Let’s try a thought experiment. Can a GPA number of 1.7, in and of itself, knock a candidate out of holistic consideration? Yes, it can, and I think you know that. So the question is simply where a given school draws the line. It is my observation that unhooked B+ students don’t get into Pomona.
In terms of Georgia Tech, from what I’ve seen, they do weigh GPAs, but only consider core classes as part of it. Still, my GPA might still fall below average, but my ACT superscore is a 33, which is higher than their average. In that sense, I think my chances are not great, but still better than Pomona or Brandeis or Chicago. And yes, my counselor actually suggested many of these schools to me; there were other colleges as well, but none were willing to offer as much FA. I couldn’t qualify for waver fees on applications because my family does not have a low income. Thanks for the suggestion.
Of course it’s subject to observation; that’s why we back our opinions up with substantiated claims. But that doesn’t mean your opinion/belief on this issue is a fact. Now, I very much recognize and appreciate the experiences and observations of people such as yourself on CC; it’s why I asked on this site in the first place. And I very much agree that if a GPA is lower than desired for a college with holistic consideration, then there must be other something else in the application that can stand out and make up for it. It’s why even though my ACT score is in an average range for Pomona, I’m retaking to get it as high as possible. In terms of ECs, I think I’ve got a unique set of activities that will stand out to admissions. My letters of recommendations are coming from people who, from what they’ve told me, think very highly of me. In terms of essays, I think I’ve got a lot of things to write about that can stand out and show that I’m more than just a statistic. Again, even with that, I still recognize how much of a reach Pomona is for everyone that tries to get in, and my GPA won’t help. But as I said before, there are people with similar stats and without being a “first generation Native American kid from rural Maine” that have gotten in to schools like Pomona, Chicago, etc. And I’m sure for every one of those kids, so many more of them were rejected, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a chance, and that people can just look at one number and be 100% certain of the result.
And about your “thought experiment”, I don’t think that’s a valid comparison by any means necessary. First of all, a 3.45 with a very challenging schedule at a very challenging school isn’t close to a 1.7. Second, if the applicant has a 1.7 UW GPA, but also has a very compelling story about poverty, extreme family issues, severe illness, etc., that would have affected his grades at school, and has shown academic ability of the highest level through other means like standardized testing and EC’s, I don’t think the admissions would throw away his application immediately and not give him a chance. Again, although I don’t have an extreme circumstance like this hypothetical person, I still don’t have nearly as poor of a GPA. Sure, he wouldn’t have the best hopes of getting in, but for us to automatically say he’s done for and doesn’t stand any chances whatsoever, to me, just isn’t right. Thank you for sharing your observations.
OP, listen to @intparent- poster is probably the most knowledgeable on CC. I wanted to get into UChi with a 3.1 UW and 1270/1600 SAT and I was told I had a 99.9% of being rejected. I’m happy I didn’t waste time applying. I think Brandeis is an equally good school, and I feel Pomona is probably a little more cutthroat than Brandeis.
“there are people with similar stats and without being a “first generation Native American kid from rural Maine” that have gotten in to…Pomona”
See, this is wishful thinking, but you’re stating it as fact. You have never seen anyone’s college application. You don’t know what stats, much less which hooks, any Pomona admit has. You may have seen some claim to this effect on a Pomona admit thread, but you do not know if it’s true. Other people on this board have seen hundreds or thousands of actual applications. Some of us have worked in admissions offices. Some of us have flunked out of high school and then gotten into Harvard and know about long-shot applications. (OK, that’s only me.)
"also has a very compelling story about poverty, extreme family issues "
Oh, you mean a HOOK! But regardless…
“for us to automatically say he’s done for and doesn’t stand any chances whatsoever, to me, just isn’t right.”
He has no chance, even with hooks. It would be cruel to that student to lie to him and encourage him to waste his time. Some admissions questions have no clear answer, like whether you’ll get a scholarship at GMU. Others do have answers. Guidance counselors like me have an obligation to give you those answers. But I get reminders every day that kids make the choice whether or not to listen.
If you want to apply to Pomona, go ahead. You don’t need our permission.
OP, I think the linchpin here is that you didn’t ask people whether or not you should apply to Pomona - I imagine that if you did, people would’ve told you to go ahead and try, despite it being unlikely. You presented readers with a choice - if you could only apply to one, should you apply to Pomona, where you are unlikely to be admitted just given the facts of your application and of Pomona’s overall competitiveness, or to Brandeis, where you have a much better chance and where you are likely to also be offered great financial aid? I think most people’s logical conclusion is - why waste an application at a school you are quite frankly unlikely to be admitted to if you can apply to an also-excellent school that’s more of a match for your application? Nobody is trying to say that you have a 0% chance of admission to Pomona, just that it’s unlikely, and certainly less likely than Brandeis.
I have three recommendations for how to solve this problem.
Just apply to 8 schools. I applaud you for trying to keep your college list from growing out of control and for controlling costs. But one additional school won’t cost that much more.
Cut one of the OOS public universities from your list. You’re unlikely to be offered much financial aid from them anyway. I would recommend cutting George Mason.* That way you can apply to 7 schools - 2 reaches, 3 matches, 2 safeties, a really good mix - and 2 of them are affordable public schools in your home state and 3 are private schools that meet 100% of your financial need. A better mix, IMO.
If you are already set on the other 6 and must only choose one of the above, choose Brandeis! Not only are you more likely to get into to Brandeis, it balances your list better: you will now have a matchy (high-match?) college which will meet the vast majority of your financial need. You currently don’t have one of those; all of your match schools are public OOS universities that are unlikely to offer you much aid.
*It sounds like you are from Alabama and UAB and Auburn are your safety schools. I then see very little point in applying to George Mason, which is essentially pretty similar to Auburn in terms of size and selectivity but is going to be expensive and unlikely to offer you very much financial aid, given that you are not a VA resident.