Should I apply to Oxford?

Applying to College
1

I’m currently a US senior at a public High School in a remote part of the country, and I’ve been thinking about applying to an Ivy League school abroad, seeing as how due to my history I just wasn’t able to get into any extracurriculars. I’m a diligent student with a 4.0 (weighted) GPA, and my typical grades range from solid A’s(95~ average) to A+(98+~ average). I’m currently studying over 5 AP courses, and I wanted to apply to the premed course they offer, with my AP courses being:

AP Chemistry
AP Biology
AP Physics 1
AP Calculus AB

with other negligible AP’s such as Psychology, Geography, and Macroeconomics, which evidently are unrelated to such a course. I intend to take my SAT and ACT tests in January.

Assuming that I’m able to get 5’s on all of the relevant exams, (And a 32+ and 1400+ for the ACT and SAT respectively) what would be my chances of success?

Initially I wanted to go to Yale or Harvard, but due to my unfortunate circumstances, I’m unable to summon souls from the afterlife, write a bestselling novel, or find the Holy Grail. It’s astonishing, and quite frankly heartbreaking to see just how vacant my grades/test scores seem when compared to national athletes and individuals who’ve raised thousands of dollars for X cause. Extracurriculars never really concerned me, and I’d always been left to self-study academia, not to impress anyone, only to satisfy my craving for knowledge. I truly do cherish my education above all else, and it baffles me to realize just how badly that backfired. It seems as though Oxford’s only concern is with the academic potential of the individual itself, so I find that if I want to get into a fantastic university, this may very well be my only chance.

2

So, the first thing is that there is no pre-med course at Oxford. You apply straight into medical school and (with apologies for the brutality of this) you have next to no chance of getting in. The main reason for that is completely beyond your control: all UK med schools are limited to a very small number of international students for medicine, so you are competing with people from all over the world for not more than 6 places. For medicine there is also an aptitude test (the BMAT) that you have to register for by Oct 1 (or 15 for a higher fee) and take on Nov 2. You also need to have done some medically related activities- volunteering in medical environment, shadowing a doctor, etc.

Have you already taken any APs / SAT / ACT?

Are you only interested in med school, or are there other courses you would be interested in (If your goal is med school you really want, you are probably better off staying in the US- it is very difficult to transition back)

3

I don’t really know how having no extracurriculars would bode for any college, but maybe look into UChicago? It’s a school with a reputation of students living the “life of the mind” and learning for the sake of learning. It’s a very intense environment and has the intellectual vibe I think you might like. Plus, it has the amazing Pritzker School of Medicine (a grad school) and you can get a lot of opportunities for internships and things like that through UChicago Careers in STEM/following a premed track. For UChicago essays are really really important and they have very quirky and original prompts that are a lot of fun to write (at least for some people. But one indication of if you’d enjoy the school or not is if you enjoy answering such prompts).

Of course, not all extracurricular activities can be inside school. Basically, what do you do in your free time? I highly doubt you spend every waking hour studying. If you can justify the whole “not having ec’s” by things like “I learn to code in my free time” or whatever it is you do, then there still might be a chance schools could look upon you favorably. Some people don’t have an ec’s because they work all the time or care for siblings. There’s a difference b/w not having any ec’s b/c you spend all your free time playing video games or fooling around and b/c you spend your time learning new things. For ec’s colleges mostly want to see you do something you love (or is necessary like work for example).

Also, you write that due to your history you weren’t able to get into any ec’s. I don’t know if this means you didn’t have chances to do them or just didn’t want to, but remember that colleges look at your application in context of your situation at school, home, etc. You just have to make it clear to colleges the reasons that you didn’t have the chance to engage in any ec’s.

I would also stray away from thinking about Oxford/school abroad unless you know for sure you can afford them since I think international students wouldn’t be getting much fin aid there.

Good luck!

4

Essentially no financial aid from the UK/EU, but you can use FAFSA

5

If you’re looking to become a doctor and are American, you really should study in the US. The good news is that undergraduate prestige just isn’t a big consideration when it comes to med school admissions.

6

“Have you already taken any APs-”

I’ve taken AP biology last year, and to be quite honest, though admittedly audacious, the work was quite facile and simplistic… I was even reprimanded on multiple occasions for studying more in depth certain phenomena… For example, when studying cellular respiration and the citric acid cycle, apparently the class just glosses over it, and the biochemistry is apparently taught in the 2-3rd year of college?!

“SAT / ACT”

I’m taking them ASAP this year, and I concede that I wanted to wait as long as possible to ensure that I’ll have the greatest chances of receiving the maximum score possible for myself.

“Are you only interested in med school, or are there other courses you would be interested in-”

Absolutely not. The career choice has been long decided, and I have no concern with any other profession.

“Of course, not all extracurricular activities can be inside school. Basically, what do you do in your free time?” I highly doubt you spend every waking hour studying"

This past year alone I’ve self studied philosophy, more specifically epistemology, and have entered countless debates with a myriad of different individuals. Though I wouldn’t really consider this much…

“For ec’s colleges mostly want to see you do something you love”

Is knowledge and the fervor for it not great enough?!

“Also, you write that due to your history you weren’t able to get into any ec’s. I don’t know if this means you didn’t have chances to do them or just didn’t want to, but remember that colleges look at your application in context of your situation at school, home, etc. You just have to make it clear to colleges the reasons that you didn’t have the chance to engage in any ec’s”

I can’t help my circumstances, and I’ll have you know that I never had the opportunity to join any clubs/sports/after school activities! I’m not concerned with the vacuous crap some adolescents decide to waste their time with to accomplish whatever useless goal: I’m astonished that extracurriculars play such a pivotal role in the realm of education:

“Oh, I see Student X has received perfect scores across the board in every AP/Honors class there is, perfect ACT/SAT scores, can potentially develop the cure for Y disease… Oh what’s that? He/She wasn’t part of that soccer team? Well sir, better luck next life :P”

Gosh darnit, I can’t even begin to fathom how such vapid activities are so relevant when it comes to applications…!!!

“I would also stray away from thinking about Oxford/school abroad unless you know for sure you can afford them since I think international students wouldn’t be getting much fin aid there”

The finance isn’t an issue whatsoever.

“For medicine there is also an aptitude test (the BMAT) that you have to register for by Oct 1 (or 15 for a higher fee) and take on Nov 2”

Assuming I were to get a decent score, might that improve my chances?

“You also need to have done some medically related activities- volunteering in medical environment, shadowing a doctor, etc”

My father works at a nephrologist, and I’ve seen him work firsthand, though I don’t believe this qualifies as anything…

7

You will need an extraordinary score on the BMAT, PLUS predicted 5s in 3 APs this year* (including Chemistry) to have any chance at all.

*note that for Medicine you need three scores taken in the same year, so your Bio counts towards the science requirement, but not for the 3 in 1 year rule (assuming you got a 5 on the exam, of course).

8

Your grammar is impeccable. Wow.

I am also a senior in high school, so obviously I can’t give too much retrospective insight concerning applications and the application process. However, I really think that your persistence and passion for this could really be an asset for you. You mentioned that your father works at a nephrologist… is this anything that you could potentially tie into an essay or similar?
From the countless research hours I’ve put in pertaining to university admissions and such, I do believe that your application would benefit from a rise in your standardized test scores, as well as getting a near perfect score on the aptitude test that’s required. You seem to be completely devoted to what you do (well, rather, you ARE devoted to it), and if you show it throughout your application, it could be something that pushes you over that admissions threshold.

Hope I could help a little bit, at least.

9

I’ll repeat what I said:
If you’re looking to become a doctor and are American, you really should study in the US. The good news is that undergraduate prestige just isn’t a big consideration when it comes to med school admissions.

Other good news is that admission to the American elites really is holistic; they’re not just looking for a list of ECs as some people on CC may think. On the otherhand, they are looking at fit and building a class.

Have you looked at the various direct/double admit pre-med programs in the US?

10

First of all, I completely agree with @lnicole --your devotion to knowledge can be made into something the admissions officers will love.

'“For ec’s colleges mostly want to see you do something you love”

Is knowledge and the fervor for it not great enough?!’

When writing this I meant that your passion for learning is something that you love and that this can count as an “ec”…sorry if it came off the wrong way :stuck_out_tongue:

‘"Oh, I see Student X has received perfect scores across the board in every AP/Honors class there is, perfect ACT/SAT scores, can potentially develop the cure for Y disease… Oh what’s that? He/She wasn’t part of that soccer team? Well sir, better luck next life "’

Colleges view both working to cure Y disease and soccer as extracurricular activities and might even value the former over the latter. You don’t HAVE to play a sport or do art or perform in 28 different musical ensembles, those are just activities that kids do and are passionate about. In the situation you wrote about above, Student X’s application and situation looks great! Ec’s are not just clubs or sports but really any activity you do outside of school.

‘Gosh darnit, I can’t even begin to fathom how such vapid activities are so relevant when it comes to applications…!!!’

Welcome to America, where seeing if a student can kick a ball around can decide how successful he/she can be at learning and understand biochemistry…I honestly don’t know of any other country where ec’s and anything besides test scores and/or grades comes into play when colleges decide whether to accept someone or not. Many countries, such as Russia and China use only exam scores to place students into colleges. My parents (coming from a different country) were also fathomed to hear all you need to list on your college apps.

‘My father works at a nephrologist, and I’ve seen him work firsthand, though I don’t believe this qualifies as anything…’

If you’ve seen him at work and maybe have followed him around during a regular day, this could count as “shadowing”.

11

@aykt4245, I don’t think you understand why American elites admit the way they do.

They aren’t looking to fill up with the most promising biochemists, historians, etc. (which is more the English model). They’re looking to fill a well-rounded class that will contribute to make the college better in all aspects (including in sports), be a sum greater than it’s parts, and go on to be leaders and do great things in many fields.

The only American elite that cares solely about scholastic prowess and potential in admissions is tiny Caltech (though like Oxbridge, they also admit holistically).

12

I would recommend you try the Ivies anyway, ECs are only a factor, what they are most interested in is your mind.

13

There’s no need to denigrate other students for developing their personal interests. Attempting to elevate yourself by putting down other people always looks bad.

Why are the choices only Ivy or Oxford? There are 7000+ colleges in the US, and the vast majority of them give little to no weight to ECs.

If med school is the goal, then the undergrad school isn’t critical. Med school admission boils down to MCAT & GPA. Therefore, you can enroll in thousands of schools that don’t care about ECs, and still be a competitive candidate for med school.

This was a poor strategy, given that you are allowed to take the test many times and be credited by schools with your best score.

Now it’s September, and you’re shopping for schools without firm scores in hand. You’ll have limited time to recover if you aren’t happy with your Fall test score.

I strongly advise that you dial down down the holier-than-thou tone in your writing style for your college essays.

14

^^ Agreed. “Kicking a ball around” is a SKILL honed through hours of practice and dedication. To get into an Ivy League school, athletes must be outstanding in their sport – and also have excellent grades and stats.

If you really think it’s easy to reach the level of athleticism to be recruited for a top school while still doing very well in school – then you need to expand your horizons beyond the academic. You may be smart and accomplished school-wise – but right now you’re still showing signs of ignorance. Being a snob will not get you into Yale.

That said, being a self-directed scholar might. You need to learn how to sell yourself, and to show that your own ECs – the additional learning you do – make you a candidate worth paying attention to. Go ahead and appy to Oxbridge if you want. Just know what you’re getting yourself into: and that won’t be medical school. (But could be a medically-related research-based field.) Go ahead and apply to Harvard and Yale. Other than time and application fee, you have nothing to lose.

But because Oxbridge and Yale are a reach for everyone, you need to have a reasonable application strategy that includes matches and safeties so that you have a school to go to come next fall. Start with your state flagship university, then work up and down in selectivity. Have that all-important talk with your parents about finances: what will they pay for each year? No sense applying to universities you can’t afford.

Finally, start reading the College Search and Selection Forum for ideas on where to apply. Good luck. You sound like a very interesting student. If you apply intelligently, odds are you will have good schools to choose from next year.

15

By the way, being from a remote part of the country can be a “hook”, especially at the smaller Ivies like Dartmouth, but also at top, prestigious liberal arts colleges like WIlliams, Pomona, and Middlebury, which you should also consider because, like the Ivies, they admit without regard to whether you apply to financial aid, and if accepted, they fully meet demonstrated need.

For Oxbridge you must come in already committed to your major, and it is either medicine, or it isn’t. Then, you pretty much take ONLY courses in your major, or closely related to it, so if you are not in the medicine major, then you are not taking medicine courses, period. These two universities don’t care much for non-academic extracurriculars, but they both require fairly intense academic/intellectual interviews. You can see plenty of examples on youtube. Finally, they don’t give financial aid to Americans.

16

First, register for the October and December tests of the sat and act, plus November subject tests in your three strongest subjects.
If you’re passionate about learning, your subject test scores in your 3 strongest subjects should be in the 700-800 range and at most colleges it’ll help. Some colleges require them BTW, and some accept them instead of the SAT/ACT.
You can apply to five courses through UCAS one Oxford (though not medicine since its goal is to train NHS physicians) plus four others (look for the Leagues Tables in your subject.)

Second, plenty of universities will admit you and even their honors college if you have good grades, high scores, and curriculum rigor.
Csu 's in California will admit you strictly on GPA x sat/act. Granted, CSU’s don’t have a good track record for premed/med school admissions, but plenty of other universities do… and basically guarantee you an admission if you’re top 25% for stats (GPA X test scores) with sufficient curriculum rigor.
You’re lucky, med schools don’t care about where you went to school as long as it’s basically top 10% (check out Fiske Guide, Princeton Review, Top Honors Colleges to have an idea of the list - there’d be 370-400 universities on the list.)

Third, ec’s can be intellectual pursuits. It’s one of the biggest myths in college admissions that you need to play sports to go to college. Sure, you can, but you can also play the clarinet or play chess or play Shakespeare. Now you need to explain those pursuits better - frame that better.

Fourth, a crucial criterion will be how much your parents can afford per year. Check with them - most teens have no idea what their parents can afford or are willing to pay (those two may differ.) Ask for an actual number, or range.

Side note : I think you would likely enjoy Reed.

17

“There’s no need to denigrate other students-”

My intention wasn’t to deride those who pursue such activities, rather to express my immense frustration towards the weight it has on your chances.

“Attempting to elevate yourself by putting down other people always looks bad”

My apologies- Though I did mention that this entire post was audacious. I’m well aware that there will always exist a fervor for EC’s that rivals or even exceeds my own for education. I’m just absolutely livid that such activities are considered remotely equal to education as a whole…!!!

“Why are the choices only Ivy or Oxford”

Put simply I want to be surrounded by minds greater than my own: I’ve always wanted to be in an environment which challenged my every thought on every possible occasion: An environment that allows for the expansion and consequently the evolution of both intellectual thought and devotion to one’s career choice. It’s been a while since I’ve experienced that.

“If med school is the goal, then the undergrad school isn’t critical. Med school admission boils down to MCAT & GPA”

I’m inclined to believe that the big-fish little barrel scenario would alter that: There’s a massive distinction between a graduate from any generic college and an Ivy League university.

“I strongly advise that you dial down down the holier-than-thou tone in your writing style for your college essays”

Haha! Gosh darn this tirade was meant only to express my frustration and examine my available options! And I’m truly thankful for this help!

18

“I’m inclined to believe that the big-fish little barrel scenario would alter that: There’s a massive distinction between a graduate from any generic college and an Ivy League university.”

So say you, a HS kid who doesn’t sit on any med school admissions committee.

In any case, if you want to be challenged intellectually, it’s great that the internet exists now. Awareness and maturity are a little more difficult to attain, however (but you have time).

19

The universities known for the ‘life of the mind’ include Reed, UChicago, William&Mary, Pomona. They’re not Ivy League (although Columbia may qualify). The Ivy League is just eight universities among the most prestigious in the US, but they absolutely do not represent the alpha and omega of top schools.
Note that if you’re premed, no matter where you study, you’ll have to study two years in the US to establish a GPA. And, as long as you’re in the top 350-400 universities in the country (roughly top 10%) there’s no difference for medical school admissions.
Top universities want to see what you do in your free time. It can be philosophy. What they want is for you to be the best in the endeavor you chose.
Beside Oxford, you can apply to Trinity Dublin, Durham, Edinburgh, St Andrews.
Have you talked budget with your parents? What can they afford?