Should I bother applying to college anymore?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

I came to US last summer from Vietnam. I’m having my Senior year summer now.

  • I took all regular classes in Junior year, I wanted to take honors and AP classes, but my counselor said she didn’t think that was a good idea since I just came here. My UW GPA is around 3.5. I could say the classes and study programs in Vietnam are much more difficult than in US (regular classes there are like honors and AP classes here), so that really affect my GPA. Even if I was in top 5% of my class, it’s just a B+ here. I always do well in every class, my grades are 94+
  • I even have to choose between classes to put in my transcript because they can’t give me more than 7 credits a year (we take 13 classes a year in Vietnam). It sucks I know, it means all my hard work will mean nothing after all :’( I got the Advanced High (the highest rating) on the English Proficiency Test.
  • However, I scored only 1050 on my first SAT in May, I couldn’t understand the Reading section in a very short time like that since it’s not my native language.
  • I don’t have a chance to do much EAs like American-born people. I just started doing EAs on March. Everything I do focuses on business major. I’m currently an administrative assistant for a hospice, social media manager for a nonprofit, and will be a content writer for a marketing company in UK next week. I don’t play sports for any specific team, I just play when I have free time :slight_smile:
  • I have no absences for the whole year.

I’m going to take my second SAT on August. My schedule for next year: AP Calculus, AP Government, AP Economics, Eng 4 honors, Sociology honors, Science, and other business-related elective classes.

So do you think I should consider applying to college anymore? Even if I try to do my best in every single class, both in Vietnam and US, I don’t see I have anything to compete with other students. Why don’t they just give me a chance? Why don’t they give immigrant students a chance to prove that we can do it? From a top student in a top school in my country to a “nothing” in US, I feel so disappointed and discouraged. I also have a dream to go to top colleges like NYU, Northeastern, UT, UW, etc. like other students, but yeah, every door just closes in front of me. Some people advice me to attend community college, but for me, the college experience is the most important thing I want to have.

It’s really long now, I’m sorry. It’s more like thoughts-sharing than a question. Any advice or motivation? If you are an international student, let me know your story as well to give me some hope please. Any Vietnamese? Say hi :slight_smile:

2

@chautrinh

I think you are in a bit of a sticky situation. Your SAT is incredibly low (at a 1050). This pretty much cuts you off from any competitive college.

Your GPA is also a bit lackluster (at 3.5 UW with regular classes). While you aren’t fully to blame for this, the situation is what it is. Note that your GPA/Class grades or rank from Vietnam matter very little to colleges, because they cannot evaluate the measure of standardization (so SAT scores are valued more for foreign students).

Since you are a very new immigrant, (~1 year), are you considered an international or domestic applicant? If you are an international, your chances also go down quite a bit (and financial aid will become very unlikely/impossible).

Finally, although it is completely out of your control, you have the unfortunate circumstance of being born as an Asian (thus an over-represented majority). This means that the level of expectation that colleges have for you are much higher than say African or Native American students.

Unless you can somehow improve your SAT by 400-500 points within the next month, I would have to say you need to stop thinking about colleges like NYU and UT, and more about community college. I hate to break it to you, but any school within the top 200-300 is unlikely to take an international Asian student who has a 1050 SAT.

3

Consider trying to ACT - some people do much better on one than the other when it comes to standardized tests.

4

@RMNiMiTz

Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it.

Yes, I am in a sticky situation. I understand. NYU is just my dream school, I also have other choices like UTA, Texas A&M (in-state schools), Indiana University, etc.

I’m going to take 3 AP and 2 honors classes next year, I believe it will help boost my GPA and class rank a bit higher?

Is it possible to raise my SAT score by 200 points within the next 2 months? If it was, does it increase my chances of getting into one of those schools?

And do my activities I do know matter? And if I can get good recommendations?

Thanks again for your help.

5

@PengsPhils

Is it possible to switch to ACT and do well on it within the next few months?

Thanks.

6

I think your views on college admissions may be a bit skewed. For some perspective, consider that almost 50% of all college students attend community colleges, and among those at four year schools, about a quarter attend part time. Less than a third of U.S. undergraduates are full-time students at primarily residential colleges. Also, out of the 3000+ colleges in this country, only 4% attend colleges with an acceptance rate of 25% or less.

Your GPA and test score will not prohibit you from going to college or getting a degree at one or more of the 3000+ colleges mentioned above, but CC may give you a better shot at having a wider choice of more selective public and privates colleges that admit more CC transfer students (and give priority to them in some cases). Instead of thinking you’re not being given a chance, think of CC the way many non-immigrants do - as your opportunity to prove yourself in terms of being able to succeed at these more selective colleges. There are many students who don’t test well on standardized tests for a variety of reasons. ESL may put you in that category, but another big advantage for those students is that test scores are not considered for CC transfer students.

Best of luck.

7

First, OF COURSE your Vietnam grades 9-11 count. You’ll need to submit your Vietnamese transcripts and any national exam results you got. (Also, American colleges will be well aware of your Vietnamese curriculum’s rigor.)
Second, as an ELL you can ask to do a second 11th grade year, where you don’t have to struggle with the language. That first year thus wouldn’t be held against you.
Third, dedicate all your possible time ‘prepping’ for the SAT. That means creating an account in Khan academy (.org) and working through the problems, taking a sample test, and reviewing and working on each problem till you get it right ten times in a row. You can borrow books from the library, any book indicating ‘March 2016 SAT’ works but exercises from older books can work too.
Finally, unlike other countries, American universities factor in ‘context’. Your context is being ELL.
Finally, is there a community college nearby where you could take some summer classes to show your ability to handle college work?

8

I’m sorry everybody, my GPA is 3.5/4.0, not unweighted. I misunderstood.

9

I would not recommend the ACT in your situation. The SAT is 1/2 math, 1/2 English. The ACT is 1/2 Reading and English, 1/4 Math, 1/4 a science test that actually involves quite a bit of fast reading and analysis.

So, your SAT score is 50% English versus the ACT is maybe 70% English.

You’re better off with the SAT. In terms of how to spend your couple of months, use satpractice.org and take all the released practice tests. After each test, analyze your mistakes and learn from them.

10

@MYOS1634

I’m sorry if I made you confused. I took 11th grade year here in US.
Yes, I will absolutely do so. I plan to practice SAT for about 5 hours a day until my second SAT test on August. I hope it will somehow improve my score.
I’m not sure about the CC’s summer classes. I will check it out.

@1Dreamer

Thank you so much for your advice.
I didn’t know colleges don’t consider tests scores of CC transfer students.
I will try my best on my last year. If it didn’t work, I would consider CC.

11

Still the same principle applies: grades from year 9+10 in Vietnam will 'count’for college. You’ll need to describe your school and explain its national rank, success in national exams, etc. on your brag sheet, perhaps to help your guidance counselor indicate something like 'Vietnamese equivalent to Stuyvesant or NCSSM. ’

Cc 's are a last resort if you need financial aid or aren’t a permanent resident : as a transfer, you would no longer be eligible for the best financial and merit aid (which is reservedbto freshmen) - and would be eligible for nothing at all if you’re not a xitizen/permanent resident.

What state do you live in and do you have a visa or are you a permanent resident?

12

Is the 1050 SAT score for all three sections or math + reading? If the score is for all three sections, I think you need to lower your expectations a lot and apply to basic universities or community colleges. Transferring after two years is always an option. Then they will only have your GPA to look at.

@MYOS1634 “Also, American colleges will be well aware of your Vietnamese curriculum’s rigor”

Really? What proof do you have of that?

13

@ceilingroofgoat The SAT doesn’t have three sections any more.

14

@AroundHere Damn, I’m getting old. Wow.

15

@AroundHere
Will take your advice. Thanks :slight_smile:

@MYOS1634
I reside in TX and have a visa. I’m not currently a permanent resident but will be soon. I don’t think I am eligible for any financial and merit aid since I’m not citizen or permanent resident, and I believe most of them depend on household income, is that correct?

16

That is correct.^

Your issue is really the SAT score. A 3.5 is not bad at all if your SAT score can back it up. Unfortunately, your English comprehension may be hindering you from the score you want. Perhaps take this coming year and study reading English to improve. It sounds like you are prepared otherwise.

Can you afford to go to NYU? It is extremely expensive! Are there good schools back in Vietnam that you would get into?

And no, you should not quit applying! :slight_smile:

17

It’s all to you advantage then to spend one more year in 11th grade, since you’ll need your permanent resident card to apply. and that can take time. Yes, I know, one more year of school is unlikely to be your cup of tea but remember, slow and steady wins the race. If you sprint straight ahead off a cliff you won’t win anything. :slight_smile:
In addition, it gives you time to increase your GPA and class rank, take more rigorous courses, and improve that SAT.
Be ready for your GC to not want that (keeping you an extra year costs money so they’d rather have students not know their rights), but state plainly that you need to be in school till your get your green card and as of now it’s nowhere near, plus it’s your right as an ELL student to take longer to graduate, so you’d like to avail yourself of that right which will also make your attending college much more likely, which is good for the school’s bottom line. :slight_smile: Go into that meeting with the name of your Ombudsman or the ELLs’ district rep and tell your guidance counselor that “Mr/Ms. Z had told you there may be some hesitancy but you’re sure they can explain it better if need be.” :wink: (I don’t know if your level of English allows you to understand subtext or implicit information, but that line has subtext to incentivize your GC to grant you permission to stay an extra year).
Being in Texas complicates things since Texas public universities recruit based on class rank but it also means that if you spend more than 2 years in HS there and graduate from there you’ll be able to apply to Texas public universities as an instate applicant.

Therefore I’d respectfully suggest that for that plan you take
AP English Language
AP French (or whatever language you studied in Vietnam beside English - if not offered, ask whether they have access to a virtual HS where you could take it)
AP Macro/Micro
AP Calculus AB
Science Honors
Business-related Elective
TRIO/AVID

and Senior year
TRIO/AVID
AP Calculus BC
AP Gov
Eng Honors 4
Sociology Honors
AP Science
AP Art or Geography (depending on what you transfer from Vietnam)

You need to “prep” for your August SAT indeed. Use library books. But start with Khan Academy’s diagnostic tools and online lessons. :slight_smile:

A 3.5 GPA is not bad at all! Your main problem is that SAT score.
Plus absence of green card - without it, it’ll change your ability to pay for college. You need to stick around the high school till it arrives. I know it’s a pain in the butt but since you have to be enrolled in school and since you can’t go to college till it gets there, it’s your best solution. It’s also a nice bonus that it’ll give you more time to increase your GPA, rigor, and test scores.

Financial aid depends on the college (some are generous, others aren’t). Financial aid, strictly speaking, is based on parents’ income: +:- 45K? 75K? 125K? etc. but each college decides how they calculate your need and whether they’ll “meet” it. So you need to run the NPC on each college. And only 85 colleges or so “meet full need” for all students they admit.
Then there’s merit aid. Merit aid depends on several elements but the key element is always test scores (no matter what people may officially say, way more people have a high GPA than have high test scores.) So, you want to be top 10-25% in test scores for the colleges you want merit aid from. As a result, your test scores impact which colleges would grant you merit aid.
Finally, some colleges are test optional. Some are really highly ranked (like Bowdoin or Wake Forest) but would require very high rigor as well as excellent grades; others are strong colleges that want a diversity of applicants (like American, WPI, Muhlenberg, or Willamette). However when you apply to test-optional schools you must apply to more since you have one less criterion to use in gauging whether you’ll get in and with what financial aid package.

Finally, since you were in an American high school this year, is there any EC you have a shot at gaining a leadership role?

Regarding the 7 credits/year: choose wisely wrt to college admissions as well as graduation requirements, but remember that you can actually have and of course indicate them as Honors due to the track you were in (I know that in Vietnam the “track” implies “honors” or not; explain this to your guidance counselor).
Total: 14 credits can transfer for 9th and 10th grade in Vietnam.
2 full credits of math (indicate which math: Precalculus and calculus, I’m guessing), Vietnamese Literature, World Literature, …History (Asian/Vietnamese/World <- pick one for each year), Biology, Chemistry, Physics, whatever foreign language you took beside English (French? Korean? Chinese?..) and the level (ie., if you had taken French in 6th, 7th, and 8th grade, then you’d have French 3&4 in 9th and 10th grade) = TOTAL 11
That leaves THREE full credit or SIX half credit classes which you can pick from your remaining courses or any combination thereof. :slight_smile:
I would strongly suggest requesting 1 credit each in World Geography or Art* and Physical Education, plus two half credits of your choice from the rest of your Vietnamese schedule. Alternatively, if you took “impressive” classes such as Ancient Languages or Philosophy it’s worth it to ask for them to be on your transcript.

  • whichever you didn’t take this year and don’t want to take next year.

Community Colleges allow HS students to do “concurrent enrollment”, also called “dual enrollment”. You can take a summer class and it looks good because you’re still a high schooler. :slight_smile: You can even take a class during the regular semester to boost your curriculum rigor (but I think next year’s schedule looks plenty rigorous already.)

@ceilingproofgoat: lol, experience. Also the fact Vietnamese applicants are common, roughly at the same level as the French and Nepalese (after China, India, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Canada, the UK).
This score is equivalent to a 1600 back when the SAT had three parts. Not bad for a kid who didn’t live in an English-speaking country a year ago, and equivalent to what fewer than 50% native born American kids get. :slight_smile: Hopefully it shows that this student, without language proficiency issues, is able to score very well.

18

@MYOS1634

It depends on what visa he has. I immigrated 11 years ago and still don’t have my greencard (although I am getting it soon). However, I do get counted as in-state in Texas due to residing here for all those years (I think its 36 months for the in-state requirement). If OP retries 11th grade, he might get those 36 months (to qualify) without having to get a greencard.

I think the main issue for him (and this was also for the SAT), is his language barrier. I think not being able to speak fluent English may hurt him in getting into a leadership role.

19

^you’re absolutely right, which is why it’s all to OP’s advantage to stay an extra year. ELL’s have till age 20 to graduate high school (no penalty in terms of college admissions).

20

@HRSMom
You’re right. English is the main issue I have with SAT. I can understand, but not in an extremely high level and fast-paced like native born American. I’m trying to speed myself up, but I don’t know how.

Hopefully my parents can help me pay for it, and I can try to get a job. I’m not going back to Vietnam, so applying to college is my only option. :slight_smile:

Thank you so much.