Hey everyone! HS junior (class of '22) here trying to finalize my school list for this fall. I am deciding if I should apply REA to Notre Dame or ED to Rice. Here is some info about me:
I am aware that both of these schools are huuuge reaches for anyone. I won’t go super into detail on my stats/EC’s because this isn’t a chance me, but essentially my stats are in range but my EC’s are on the weak side for these schools. Also, I am a female in Wisconsin who wants to major in CS. (Before you say it, I am aware that UW-Madison is a great school for CS, it is on my list, for sure considering it, but fit is very important to me and Madison isn’t really my scene)
Okay, now that that’s out of the way, I am essentially asking what would you do if you were me?
Notre Dame REA Pros:
I think I’m a little more likely to get into ND than Rice. My dad went there and I know legacy plays a factor in admissions (still not a guarantee though obv). Also, since my dad went there, I’ve kind of grown up with the Notre Dame “culture” and am very familiar with what they’re looking for in a student. My EC’s have some elements of what they’re looking for (very service-based, probs not enough leadership though)
The fact that REA is non-binding is a huuuge pro for me. It would be super nice to be able to compare offers and all of that stuff
Campus is gorgeous and South Bend is only a few hours’ drive from Wisconsin.
I know ND isn’t really known for their CS program, but I think I’ll still be really successful with it and I LOVE the Silicon Valley program they have where students can work for a semester at a tech startup there.
I really do love the community that Notre Dame has. My dad met his best friends there whom he still keeps in touch with. The alumni organization is amazing. The football games and school spirit sound so fun. It really seems like the people who go here love their school.
I’m just more familiar with ND than Rice in general - growing up, I’ve gone to football games there and visited and all that so it’s definitely more familiar to me
Notre Dame REA Cons
The heavy religious influence and relative conservatism of ND kind of scare me as a fairly liberal person. But at the same time, I also think it might be nice to not be in a constant liberal echo chamber so it’s not a dealbreaker I suppose.
I’m gay and I’m sure the LGBT dating scene is probably abysmal lol. But that’s not what I should base my academic decisions off of so don’t worry, that isn’t a dealbreaker either.
Weather sucks. The location in general isn’t that great either, I’d love to get out of the midwest.
Probably veryyy pricey. My dad and I ran an NPC and we were basically paying full sticker price. Seems like a lot for an undergrad degree, although I don’t plan on going to grad school as of rn so I have a liiittle more flexibility. I am also very fortunate in that my dad has said that if it’s a school I really love then we will make it work financially. (Plus, he absolutely loves Notre Dame, I think he’d sell a limb if it meant I could go there haha)
It does somewhat feel like I’m applying here because it’s been so hyped up by my dad for my whole life lol. I’m sure ND isn’t as great or “special” as my dad makes it seem, but then again maybe it is? I def think it’s less of a fit socially at least
Rice ED Pros:
I LOVE the residential college system that Rice has. I’m not completely anti-social or anything but I’m kind of introverted so it would be comforting to know that I will most likely make super close friends through my residential college.
Weather! I know Houston is super hot and muggy, but I’d really love a change of pace from those depressing midwestern winters
The entire vibe and atmosphere of the school seems very me, the kind of people who go there seem like a lot more of a match than the people at ND (although obv you can’t stereotype an entire school population and I know there are great and not so great people at both)
Also has a fantastic alumni program
Again, the people there just seem perfect for me. It seems very diverse and a lot less cutthroat than other top schools and people seem very down-to-earth. I know I would love it here.
Rice ED cons:
The binding ED decision really scares me honestly. My family is in a position where we will not get much financial aid but paying a full 75k a year is a stretch, and a binding agreement without knowing how much it would really be is a little nerve-wracking.
Like I mentioned before, I’m less familiar with Rice. I’ve never visited, and while from what I’ve read it would be a great fit it’s hard to tell without actually feeling the atmosphere in real life.
Farther from home, and Texas isn’t ideal haha
Like I said, I think I’m less likely to get into Rice. So it’s pretty likely I’d get rejected from Rice and also from ND, whereas if I had REA’d to ND it might have boosted me enough so I would’ve gotten accepted to one of the two at least (if that makes any sense)
So that is pretty much what I’m thinking! Which do you think would be the better idea? If applying ED would significantly increase my chances at Rice it might be worth it, but otherwise the non-bindng route might be less stressful. Thoughts?
Everything you have written suggests you need to see what your net costs will be amongst more than one school. It sounds like full pay at Rice and ND would not be affordable.
ED doesn’t give you the chance to compare other college net costs.
Not sure why either of these should be early applications. You don’t seem comfortable with the religious and LGBTQ cultures at ND, and you are concerned about the binding nature of Rice ED.
Apply RD, in my opinion. And broaden your search a bit. There are probably other colleges out there that you might like better.
Legacy at ND is a real boost. If your stats are competitive you can be pretty sure the combination with legacy gives you a great chance at REA. But even for RA ND looks favorably on competitive legacies. Rice with ED is still a long shot but if you really prefer it I would play your early card at Rice and hold ND in reserve for regular. The risk is losing out at ED for Rice and regular for ND. Ultimately how risk averse are you?
You need to ask your parents if they are on board with paying the full cost of attendance at Rice if that is what the net price calculator is giving you for a net cost.
You clearly should not apply ED. ED is a tool used by the universities to, in many cases, make money. Who they admit, often times, is based on money (i.e. need aware). I know these schools are need blind but…
Anyway, you state you won’t get aid (check the NPCs) and you don’t want to do full pay to your folks - nor should you, especially for this major. So ED should be out - period, end of story.
Keep your flexibility.
btw - there are a lot of wonderful programs out there in this major which is very employable where tuition is reasonable - from Purdue to Rose Hulman (if you would be ok for small and STEM targeted) to CWRU to WPI to RPI. You’d score great aid at UAH, Alabama, UTK, Arizona, ASU and other schools.
You are majoring in CS - save your $. Since you didn’t share stats, we don’t really know what schools might fit for you - but you can spend $30K vs. $75K if you step down a bit and your stats match.
btw - i pulled a list of graduate - so it’s not exactly right - but assuming it’s similar - Wisconsin is ranked higher than Rice and ND is waaaaaay down there - in the 50s.
So another thing to account - why pay so much when there’s plenty of cheaper that will do the trick.
Find the right fit for you (fit includes budget) - don’t fall in love with any school - that goes for your family.
this is really good advice thank you! just wondering though - is there a reason i should really try to save money if i’m majoring in CS? I had the impression that CS/tech jobs generally have decently high salaries, is that not the case?
Because money is fungible. $11 invested with dividends reinvested in the stock market (SPX) in 1980 grew to over $500 20 years later. So $110K grew to $5M. Granted, that was during a great bull run and there is inflation too (though in real terms, it still grew by something like 14 times). There have been 20 year periods with big dips/crashes and not much gain overall.
But the point is that your family having the money to spend doesn’t actually mean it would be smart to do so when that money, if allowed to grow, may allow you to retire early (you’ll really appreciate that option in your 40’s).
And in your case, it seems like 6 figures is real money to your family.
Rice seems like a better fit for you socially and academically. Just because your Dad fit in well at ND doesn’t mean you will like it, especially if it is not LGBTQ friendly. Rice is rated very highly as being LGBTQ friendly. LGBTQ-Friendly Colleges | The Princeton Review. The campus has an atmosphere of tolerance. Unlike ND which has a strong religious emphasis, Rice is secular.
ND has a rah rah football atmosphere, but Rice does not. The Rice students rarely attend the sporting events. The President joked at graduation that the ceremony might be many of the graduating seniors’ first trip to the stadium. The only sporting events my daughter attended were ones in which her friends were playing. She roomed with 2 soccer players so went to some of their matches. Rice does not have Greek life. However, the residential college system at Rice promotes strong friendships.
If you have run the net price calculator and you are not sure you can afford to attend Rice if you were to be accepted ED, then you need to broaden your search for schools that are LGBTQ friendly, affordable, and good in CS. You can apply to ND REA since it is not binding and take advantage of the legacy bump. Many schools take a dim view of legacies that don’t apply ED/REA. The schools assume the legacy school is not the applicant’s first choice and may wait list or deny the student. Maybe apply to Rice RD and wait and see what your options are price wise come commitment time. Rice accepts a large number of students ED but many are admitted RD as well. Rice is increasing its undergraduate student population over the next few years so it might be a good time to apply RD as there will be more slots.
If you can visit both schools in person and possibly stay overnight on campus that might help frame your decision. Rice did not offer tours or the overnight option last year due to the pandemic but might this year.
If the menu price at outback is $15 for a steak, would you pay $30?
Yes, think of what your parents can do with the savings - for themselves or for you (house, car). Many parents, even those who can afford college, feel mentally strained from spending - especially that much.
They are well paid and plentiful - but that’s no guarantee they will be when you graduate. Ask last year’s grads - came out in a pandemic. Maybe it’s ok now but there was a rough time for sure. You never know.
Wait til you start paying the food and rent bills - and you’ll look back at your question of - should i try and save money - and shake your head
Why ED to either? You don’t seem entirely enamored with them and they’re not stronger than UW in CS, and full pay is a stretch for your family, it seems. 75K-80K a year is a LOT of money, unless there is a considerable amount already saved in a 529 plan or equivalent .
To give you some real life figures, my DS1’s starting salary in CS is $85K per year with a big name bank in New York City. It’s high relative to other majors, but not high relative to the cost of living in NYC. He does not have loans to pay back. However, rent + living expenses will consume most of his after tax income.
I suggest that you cast a wider net and look for programs that may offer some merit for your stats, if you’re aiming for out of state. Barrett Honors at ASU, Univ. of Arizona Honors college (less developed than ASU, but may give more merit) , UT-Dallas., etc. are some you can look into.
