My goal was to attend Notre Dame but as you can see by my stats below that it is a long shot. So if I am denied admissions should I just give up on going to Notre Dame or should I apply their again for JD/MBA or give up? Does Notre Dame have a good JD/MBA program by the way???
Stats
3.68 GPA
27 ACT
Strong EC’s
Just about every college has some sort of night school or part-time or weekend path to a degree that is much much easier to get into than its regular fulltime day programs.
But why only ND? There are thousands of colleges in the US.
Right now your ACT makes you not very competitive for admission to ND. Certainly if you want and have the money, apply and see how things turn out.
http://admissions.nd.edu/apply/admission-statistics/
I would tell you or anyone that it is a mistake to fixate on any one school There are tons of amazing colleges and universities out there where you can have a great 4 year experience and get where you want to be in life.
And please don’t focus now on where you might go for a JD/MBA. Wait until you have a few years of college grades, you have taken appropriate standardized tests, and (if recommended) you get some work experience under your belt.
Also, Law/B school is a completely different animal than undergrad. Years from now, Notre Dame law/B school might turn out to be a good fit for you (or not).
But the reasons why you would/would not want to attend ND grad professional school are going to be extremely different from the reasons why you would/would not want to go there for undergrad.
Rudy…Rudy…Rudy…
@northwesty Explain how they would be different? I’m not really getting it.
@Chuol10 I agree it is a mistake to love only one school. ND is likely out of reach, unless you a double legacy or something.
But what do you like about ND? Catholic focus? Long history of athletic excellence on national scale? Large Midwestern university? There will be dozens of other choices in each of these or other categories, whatever your reasons are.
@PetulaClark All of what you just mentioned plus more. You just can’t get it at any other university.
ND is unique, but the same could be said for Stanford, Reed, VMI, all kinds of colleges. If you want to pursue a JD or MBA, a smaller LAC could be a better ticket in, as you will have smaller classes and more contact with professors, and admins for pro degrees will know these schools. But what if it came down to going to big state school like IU or Purdue? Or something smaller but equally competitive like Beloit or Lawrence or Kalamazoo? Or a Catholic school like DePaul or Dayton or Marquette or Duquesne? (And still root for ND).
Whats LAC?
Good question. Liberal Arts College. Like Carleton, Amherst, Williams, Pomona and dozens more you can find in a Fiske Guide or Princeton Guide or the USNews website, say top 100.
When my oldest daughter was graduating from HS in 2013, we only looked a few in-state publics. Worked out weel for her, but my current 2 in HS are looking for something smaller, something away from home state. That’s when we discovered all the options out there,
So as someone above mentioned, there are hundreds of colleges out here. Thousands. You will be able to find some good matches if ND does not work out, with all levels of costs.
I would look into some of the amazing Jesuit schools if you want a Catholic college experience and ND isn’t in the cards. There are many great options so look for colleges that meet your academic profile, your geographic preferences etc. As an aside, my S went to a Jesuit undergrad college (which he absolutely loved) and went on to get his MS degree at ND. http://www.ajcunet.edu/institutions/
“@northwesty Explain how they would be different? I’m not really getting it.”
The quality, reputation, fit, programs offered, cost, etc. etc. etc for an undergrad school will often be quite different than those same things at that same school’s graduate professional schools.
Rankings aren’t the be all/end all, but here’s one example of what I’m talking about. For undergrad, ND (#18) ranks a decent bit higher than NYU (#32). In contrast, for law school NYU (#6) ranks very much higher than ND (#22). For law schools, there’s a YUGE line that gets drawn right at number 14, and ND law and NYU law (both fine law schools) are on different sides of that line.
Very much agree with the advice above about the Jesuit colleges. The education I got from my not-so-fancy Jesuit college was more than enough to get me into a very fine law school later on.
@northwesty Why is there a huge line drawn at 14? Notre dame has a better law school than NYU, UCLA, and Michigan which are all in the top 14. Graduating from Notre dame law school won’t put you at a disadvantage when it comes to applying to top tier law firms. I think going to Notre dame for law school is equal or even better than most of the top 14 schools.
@Chuol10 I’m a lawyer and have done law school admissions review. Law school rankings are their own world. Law schools are divided into T14 – the top 14 – and then everything else. The top 14 move around within that ranking, but always include Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Columbia/NYU/Chicago/Georgetown/Northwestern/U Penn/Boalt etc. Those are considered “top” law schools, and the ten or more schools below that line are fine, but the career options shake out differently at those lower ranked schools, where a student must be towards the very top of the class rank to get a top firm job in a major metro area which is not the same market as where the law school is located. Of course it happens, but it is that much more difficult. Even kids in the bottom half of the class at top 14 schools do not have their pick of jobs, the legal market has been transformed in the past 20 years and there simply aren’t the jobs that there used to be.
ND law school ranking has bounced around below the top 20 for a number of years. It is a fine law school, but it simply cannot be compared with NYU etc. Sounds like you are still in high school – focus on finding the right fit schools for your list, and don’t worry about law school admissions now. Law school admissions – like med school – is all about gpa and LSAT scores, with a passing glance at ECs and life experience. Students at top law schools come from all over, including regional public universities and small liberal arts colleges that most people have not heard of.
For parents who have been through this process with our kids, the key is identifying the features about the “dream” schools that make it so special to the student, and then identify safety and match schools which share those aspects. For ex, if you are looking for Catholic, consider schools like Villanova on the east coast, Dayton, Marquette and Xavier in the midwest. If you want big sports without the Catholic, think Syracuse. The best advice from folks who have done this before – build your list from the bottom up, starting with safeties and matches (which are affordable), rather than starting at the top. People analogize it to car-shopping. Sure, if you start looking at Mercedes or BMW, the Ford is going to look pretty drab. But start by finding the Ford that meets your needs, and then you can expand upwards to see what shares those features and still works for you.
^^^^^ Excellent advice. OP needs to focus first on a realistic roster of undergrad schools for success, worry about law school later on.
OP –
A 33-36 only gets you a 50% chance, so even those kids need realistic match schools beyond ND.
Good luck.
@Midwestmomofboys Sorry to take thread off topic, but what is the “T14” divider? Why is it 14 in particular and is it based on US News or some other ranking?
Thank you!
T14 is the top 14 law schools as ranked by USNWR.
I believe the T14 became a thing because only the exact same 14 law schools have ever been ranked in the top 14 since USNWR started ranking law schools. So the membership in this club has never changed, even though the rankings within the club do move.
Silly distinction, but good for those schools typically just at or above the cutoff. And bad for Texas and UCLA (who often come in at #15).
The tiers generally look something like this (although us lawyers would endlessly debate and flyspeck the gradations of gray):
Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Chicago
NYU, Penn, UVA, Michigan, Cal Berkeley
Duke, NW, Cornell, Gtown