<p>Take 'em again, about the same time as the SATII Math II; the time spent studying the math will serve double duty. It would be nice to get that math score starting with a 7.</p>
<p>It is not only about getting in, but getting aid.</p>
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<p>I agree, Calmom. We are very proud of her and have not said anything to indicate that we are disappointed, because we aren’t. I also understand your point about GPA. Her school is somewhat unusual because it is a county magnet school for the sciences that draws students from 50 middle schools. There are only 65 students in her class and the school does not rank. There are no honors or AP classes because everyone takes the same curriculum (they do take some AP exams but the classes are not designated AP). They also take dual credit courses at Rutgers. I believe her GPA could be better, but I also believe that it would be a whole lot better if she attended the local giant public high school in our catchment area. I am hoping that the school profile will make this clear in her applications.</p>
<p>There’s a video associated with the article on this page that illustrates the point I made above about a possible mismatch between SAT scores and grades:
[Inside</a> the college admissions process - Parenting - TODAYshow.com](<a href=“http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/41622747/ns/today-parenting?gt1=43001]Inside”>http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/41622747/ns/today-parenting?gt1=43001)</p>
<p>Very early on in the segment they show an admissions committee member commenting that a student had a 750 on their SAT II in history, and that it didn’t make sense for him to be getting C’s in history in light of that. So obviously the high score didn’t help that particular kid. </p>
<p>There are other examples in that video of the ad coms looking for confirmation of various factors, such as whether a student’s statements about himself in an essay are consistent with the school record. So the bottom line is that the ad coms are trying to get a big picture sense of a student, and they tend to be highly sensitive to what fits together and what doesn’t.</p>
<p>If a student’s grade in a subject matter differs from their scores on an SAT II and there is a reason, that can be explained to the school. I like UT84321’s idea-- retake when studying for the SAT II. Again-- if merit money is important (you haven’t said one way or the other, unless I missed it), this is particularly important. It has nothing to do with deflating attitudes. It has to do with stepping up and taking ownership of what needs to be done.</p>
<p>Re post #22 – I think that the school profile will help a lot --the main thing is that with such a small school and a limited curriculum, the SAT’s will provide valuable confirmation. </p>
<p>Your daughter’s current SAT pattern is helpful to the ad com in the sense of getting a good picture of her overall profile as a student. There is nothing unusual about a student who is stronger on the CR/Writing sections than math – and a 660 is a very respectable math score. (My d’s best SAT math score was 590 – she was accepted to plenty of reach schools with that score, though obviously not as a prospective math major.).</p>
<p>The problem with a student who has a uniformly high SAT score and GPA is that it can be hard for the ad com to get a handle on them. Yes the student looks great on paper, but there’s not a picture that emerges in the mind of the ad com about the person behind the numbers. So being a little bit lopsided is not necessarily a bad thing – the stats seem more genuine and reliable in that context. Of course, the picture of the student often emerges from essays and recs an the list of EC’s – but that student with the “flat” SAT (meaning all scores uniformly at about the same level), may actually have a little more work to do in the context of a holistic application process. </p>
<p>I mean, you have to keep in mind that the decision in the end is made by human beings. Your d’s test scores are clearly strong enough to make the first cut at any college – the question is what is there to get past the 2nd round, which is the part that it becomes much more important to focus on whatever it is that makes the student stand out.</p>
<p>Your d. seems to have a somewhat unusual array of interests – pre-med combined with a likely poli-sci/history major – I’d think that her EC’s or essays may be the best thing she’s got going for her.</p>
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The only person who has “ownership” of “what needs to be done” is the daughter. The best way any parent can help their kid “step up and take ownership” is to butt out of the process. (Duct tape over the parental mouth).</p>
<p>I am not talking about the situation where a kid is messing up or clearly needs to take action to rectify a problem – as might be the case where the scores came in unexpectedly low, such as a great student who gets a score in the 400-500 range. Maybe that hypothetical student really needs a parental pep talk. </p>
<p>But the OP has a daughter who is happy with her score and has articulated a good reason for sitting on it. (she wants to focus energies on the SAT II instead). In the coming months she will learn more about the admissions processes at the schools she is interested in and get advices from her school’s GC – as there are only 65 kids in her class, there probably also is a lot of peer-level discussion about college prospects and SAT scores. If the student realizes that her classmates seem to be getting higher test scores, she will probably feel motivated in a few months to give it another go. If she feels confident that she is on a strong footing for the colleges she is aiming for, she may continue with her perception that it is best to invest her time and emotional energy on other things. Either way – she has taken “ownership” of the process. The OP’s question really can be boiled down to asking whether the “ownership” should be taken away with the OP “making” the d. do something she has said she doesn’t want to do.</p>
<p>I think many kids do better on a second go at the SAT because they are more mature and have experience with the test. I’d feel better with a math score that is in the 700s when it comes to admissions.</p>
<p>I would sign up for the June SAT. Use the May testing period to take the US history SAT subject test and the Math 2 test. You can make double use of the APUSH studying. </p>
<p>Save the fall testing period for a science subject test if you need one.</p>
<p>There is so much going on in the fall–you really want to be done with the SAT before that.</p>
<p>Totally disagree, calmom, with the “butt out” line. Most 17 year olds dont understand the long term consequences of deciding to bail, and potentially miss many opportunities that could fall by the wayside if they dont take the extra step. If it was my money on the line and I knew they had the potential to tweak the scores a bit with a bit more effort, I’d be more directive in getting the kiddo to take the ACT or reregister for the SAT. If they choose to screw it up then, thats disappointing. But they’d be taking that test.</p>
<p>** agree with ellemenope.</p>
<p>^^ Bingo. Yep.</p>
<p>Yup. It falls into the category of “you’ll thank me later”. Now that my s’s don’t live under my roof and are not dependent on us for income (younger s still is, but not for very much thanks to <em>very nice</em> merit scholarships, due in part to being “pushed” to go the extra mile and prep sufficiently for the tests) then they can slack and take ownership of their choices and live with the consequences. For us, the “encouragement” to go the extra mile and “own it” saved us about $160+K.</p>
<p>Maybe in August, bring up the SAT I again with your D, to take SAT I in the Fall, one last time.</p>
<p>The Math score could be improved. Some colleges superscore (take the best scores from all SAT I’s taken to get the best score for Math, CR, CW) . </p>
<p>My D was in the same situation. I asked her in Aug, Sept, Oct. Still she chose not to take SAT I again. I left the choice up to her. She believed that was the best she could have done.</p>
<p>jym626 – you introduced the “taking ownership” language – if you, the parent, are calling the shots, then you, the parent, are the one “taking ownership”. If that’s your philosophy of parenting, so be it – but don’t make the mistake of thinking that your kids are “taking ownership” of anything if you are the one making the decisions. </p>
<p>If what you meant by post 24 is that the OP, the parent, was the one who needed to “step up” and “take ownership” – then I misunderstood the intent of your post. I happen to have had more faith in my kids ability to make sound decisions during their teen years. </p>
<p>I’m a little puzzled by the “my money on the line” comment. The OP hasn’t raised any financial concerns – and the OP’s daughter clearly has strong enough SAT scores and a GPA to easily be admitted to dozens of excellent colleges. If the issue is wanting merit money, then the OP can research that issue and let the d. know of any specific requirements for schools that she is considering, but very few schools offer merit money based on test scores alone, and the d. already has a combined score well over 2100, which would probably qualify for merit money at most schools. </p>
<p>I looked at the list of merit scholarships at Davidson… they don’t seem to be focused on SAT scores. “Leadership” and “commitment to service” seem to be pretty important, though – OP didn’t give us any detail about the daughter’s health-related EC’s, but if the d. is doing something that is also service-oriented, the EC’s may be more significant than test score in that respect.</p>
<p>There’s no way I could have forced my kids to retake the SAT if they didn’t want to. (Both took the SAT and ACT once each.) I would suggest that she may want to consider it, but the decision should be hers. My S refused to take any SAT II’s; he decided he wouldn’t to apply to any schools that required them.</p>
<p>No calmom, that is not what I mean at all. The child has to take ownership of their responsibilities, but if it doesnt come spontaneously, it may take some prodding/direction/encouragement/whatever you want to call it from the parents. We had conversations with our younger s (older s is more self motivated) and helped him understand the importance of doing what it was we were incouraging him to do. It is a bit like leading from behind, but when he understood the reasoning to not taking the easy road and doing a half- arsed job, he stepped up and owned it.</p>
<p>D has the same situation as the D of the OP. We have decided together on a strategy. She will focus on SATII and AP exams in the spring. Skip the ACT since SAT I scores are good enough, even if they don’t improve. She will do some math prep over the summer and take the SAT I again in October. </p>
<p>I think how much you lead the process depends on how realistic your kid is about what needs to be done. My D2 is engaged and involved and realistic about her chances. D1 needed a little more encouragement.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t make her retake them, but I’d tell her I thought she should - especially because a small amount of prep will probably boost her math scores considerably. Her current Math SAT is just below the 25th percentile for JHU and Emory. And her CR/Writing are at or above their 75th percentile, which is awesome! But I’d show her the common data set and tell her that her chances would be stronger with a retake. I’d say this is especially important if she’s hoping for the Emory Scholars program.</p>
<p>I had to do this with d3. She did well with her first attempt and didn’t have a lot of time for test prep either. But she was in love with a reach school and the best way in (for an OOS female especially) was with SAT scores above their 75th percentile. I showed her the CDS and a few CC threads, and told her bluntly that I didn’t think she’d be accepted with her current score. After a day of scowling, she told me she’d decided to retake. Her overall score went up 120 points so she was happy with the decision after the fact, and got into the reach school, too. 
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<p>Good luck to your daughter - she sounds like a great student.</p>
<p>Bingo, frazzled. Exactly correct. While the OPs d’s scores are good, and she should be proud, they are not <em>great</em> for the schools she is applying to. They may be quite fine for many schools, but aren’t super strong for the schools on her list. And Frazzled is exactly right-- as I mentioned, they will not be strong enough for consideration for Emory Scholars. It was that scholarship in particular that caused my DS to consider retaking his SAT, and his scores were already 740, 770, 780. He chose not to retake the SATs, and even though he had a very strong overall application, and he did get accepted to Emory, he didnt get selected for an Emory Scholars Scholarship. He got some merit money offered, but got much more elsewhere, and chose to go elsewhere, taking the bigger scholarship money, where a 2250+ is usually a desired SAT score.</p>
<p>Whether or not the OP needs FA is, IMO, irrelevant. Who really wants to spend an extra $160-200K or more if they dont have to, regardless of whether they could pay it or not? Meaning, if a student wants to go to school “A” and is a strong candidate for merit money there, why not try for it? Sure students turn down merit money all the time and pay a lot out of pocket, but why not try for the merit money if a student has a reasonable shot at a school they want to attend?</p>
<p>So, if a student is a strong candidate for a big merit scholarship, or needs encouragement to take the extra step to be in the running, that makes perfect sense to me. Maybe some 16-17 yrs olds have the maturity and wisdom to make these decisions with the ability to think of the future consequences, but many, if not most, do not. A family discussion can be very important so that they understand the bigger picture and make a reasoned decision. There is a reason elders are respected for their life experiences :)</p>
<p>What do you have to do in the fall of senior year? Why would you discourage retaking SAT in Ocotber instead of June?</p>
<p>Igloo-
Aren’t there these pesky little things called college applications, and essays and more campus visits and such, that take up a lot of time in the fall of Senior year? ;)</p>
<p>My son retook the SAT in October of senior year and his math score went from 650 to 700. His other scores were well into the 700s from earlier no he didn’t move them much. The college applications (except for an ED and maybe rolling school) gauntlet won’t be in full swing until after she takes the October SAT so that shouldn’t be a major concern.</p>