D22 got rejected from Brown ED, she had a 1530- 800 math score. I don’t think SAT score is the deciding factor for admission.
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Don’t do anything like that, if you need to, explain it in the additional information section, but you could risk coming off as making excuses or being defensive.
“Do you have any evidence to support this?”
Some evidence is that colleges using different requirements for different schools within the university. Arts and Science and Engineering being test optional, while other schools are test blind.
It’s not a deciding factor, sure, but for an international applicant applying to places like Duke for engineering, it’s an “unofficial” requirement, especially if they don’t know the high school well.
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What evidence and which schools?
Cornell is an example…some of their schools are test blind, some are test optional.
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But they say this up front, right? So the student knows going in?
ETA: My impression is that @theloniusmonk is claiming that schools are saying one thing, and doing another. That is, saying that “’‘not sending test scores’ won’t affect your application” but then viewing students who don’t submit test scores unfavorably.
Yes, a simple google search shows one which Cornell schools are TO and which are test blind (Corenell’s common app page also links to the website below). Standardized Testing Policies | Undergraduate Admissions
I also agree TO has made a non-transparent process even murkier in some ways. There are schools we know based on acceptance stats that they are preferring scores (Auburn EA results this year) that people can find if they do research. This could be an example of saying one thing and doing another.
There are also schools that prefer scores that are well known to counselors (Michigan, WashU), and that info is not available to students who don’t have adequate counseling.
I agreed with the first post on this thread stating OP should submit their score. If they aren’t accepted it won’t be because of the math score.
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It might be completely subconscious, but we’re all human here. If you’re not a National Merit SF and go test optional, the presumption will be that your scores are subpar (given the high correlation of PSAT/National Merit with SAT)… Also, in college admissions, when is “optional” truly “optional”?
I tend to agree also. While 2021 wasn’t a great year, it was better than 2020 for test availability. I think it’s nothing more than human nature that would make a TO wonder why a student say, from the Bay Area, which has done better than many other parts of the country with the pandemic, isn’t submitting scores when tests were available.
Do I know this for a fact? No, of course not. But it just seems what an AO would wonder about, even if s/he can’t formally act on that question.
In other words, I would submit. 1510 is an amazing score.
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It’s water under the bridge, but I do think you did yourself a big disservice by not submitting the 740 math. What is the percentile on a 740 math these days? I worry that the admissions must have assumed that you got a much lower score…
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1510 is an excellent score, but whether or not you should submit will likely depend on the overall strength of the rest of your application and how your application and test score compare to applicant pool from your demographic, which I assume is an international student from Bombay. This is likely an extremely competitive pool.
But your counselor is in a much better position to assess these things than anyone here. They’ll likely have a better idea of what sort of scores it takes to get into these schools from your school, so I’d lean on their advice over that of anyone here.
If you feel like your math score is something that needs to be explained away, and/or that it is an outlier compared to the to the strength of the rest of your application, then you might be better off not submitting rather than trying to explain it away.
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the only school i didn’t submit to was duke and I’m not sure how much of a difference it would have made. For WashU (my ED 2) 740 is below the 25th percentile(760) which is why I’m not sure about submitting here specifically (and HMC, where it’s 770)
Is a 740 statistically different from a 760? Splitting hairs IMHO… I think the risk is if you don’t submit, the assumption could be that it is a 650 or worse… They’re looking for reasons to say no, why give them a free one?
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Fair enough. Although elsewhere in my application there’s no reason to believe I would’ve scored poorly. Also, my counsellor has recommended I don’t, could there by any other reason she might be saying so?
@SamSB, The posters here mean well, but your counsellor likely has much better information than do the posters here. This is especially so if you attend a competitive high school which routinely sends kids to top American colleges. (I’m assuming this is the case given your reference to friends applying.)
@observer, it is absolutely crazy, and it shouldn’t be this way, but at top schools (like Duke, Penn, etc) and from some extremely competitive demographics a 740 math score is not going to move the needle in the applicants favor, and it may actually hurt the applicant as compared to others from the same demographic. This is especially true for applicants who otherwise can demonstrate a high competency in math.
And contrary to your opinion that schools will automatically assume a disqualifying lower score, colleges are admitting a high percentage of students test optional.
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If your counselor has recommended something, I’d follow that advice.
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The friend isn’t actually from my school but I’d say it’s fairly competitive anyway. But I mean private counsellor outside of school. They’ll probably have many other students applying to the US though, so there might be data they’re basing it on
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This is likely why your counselor recommended that you not send: the rest of your application likely indicates a higher aptitude than your SAT score does. If you have excellent grades in high level math then she may believe that that submitting your SAT will lower your evaluation.
Can you ask her why she made the recommendation?
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Yes, but by not submitting, wouldn’t the normal conclusion be that the SAT score is really bad?? For sure the admissions officer wouldn’t conclude that he got an 800 and decided not to submit it… To me, it’s just a slippery slope…
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OP says it’s a private counselor outside of high school not the OP’s guidance counselor in the high school. The info is based on other clients the private counselor has, which is still relevant but not the same as a HS guidance counselor who can talk to the student’s strength in math without the student needing to.
“the assumption could be that it is a 650 or worse”
I don’t think they would assume a score like that, either 690 or what the OP got, 740 right at or below the 25% range.
OP: Have you considered just asking an admission officer at the school if they recommend submitting such a score? My kid was on an info session with a college (not Wash U) and they just straight up said that they would suggest sending a score in 50th % or above but not below. (This was an info session in 2020 so even for that school it might be different today.)
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