Yes, I realize that it was an outside now that OP clarified. Given that the OP indicated that the counselor probably has a lot of other students applying to the US, I assume the a counselor in Bombay dealing with this situation will have a better idea than posters here.
Also, the student submitted scores to (CWRU, Tulane, GATech, Purdue, Union) and got into 3, and hasn’t heard from the other two. Assuming this is what the counselor recommended, it suggests a fairly sophisticated understanding of the process which is tailored to individual schools.
I’m not sure that they are going to assume any score, provided they can tell that the applicant is highly qualified in math based on the rest of the application.
Of course I don’t know if the AO’s view international applicants differently with regard to submission of test scores but it doesn’t seem like anyone else here does either. Hopefully, for the student’s sake, his counselor has a better idea than we do.
It wouldn’t be used in any rubric. Schools usually use some sort of numeric calculation — it’s not all a subjective assessment. A student who submits a test score might have an academic ranking = test score + GPA + rigor, whereas a test optional applicant’s rank/score is based solely on GPA + rigor. It simply isn’t part of that aspect of the assessment.
The difference in that rating could mean making the cut to a more subjective round…where they may not even look at scores because the academic rating got them to this round.
I don’t mean it works that way exactly everywhere, but that is the spirit of test optional. Test scores aren’t considered. Period. AOs can’t make assumptions, but if they see a submitted score that is lower than their threshold, they can’t unsee it.
It’s human nature to make assumptions, particularly when there is uncertainty. That’s how we manage risk. If I were an AO, which obviously I’m not although I do conduct alumni interviews, I would assume the score were bad (particularly if the student were not National Merit)… Just my 2 cents…
Wouldn’t telling an AO my score make them aware of it while making my decision? I mean technically it shouldn’t affect it but subconsciously they’re going to know it was a 740. ← Assuming I’m sending a mail. There’s no info session at WashU soon to mu knowledge. I did a student interview so I can send an email to her but not sure how much she’ll be able to help
I’m naturally considering them (that’s why I applied) but I haven’t heard from all of them yet and I might as well apply to better schools and wait to make a final decision once I’ve heard from everything. As an international student I’d rather be absolutely sure the whole thing is worth it, which I can be at a top institution. Plus, the same reason everyone would rather go to the best schools.
Well I talked to her and she said agrees that sending it to some of these schools would do more harm than good. Recommended submitting it to WashU and USC, but not the rest(JHU, Northwestern, HMC or harvard).
It’s a whole counselling team, so the counsellor I spoke to did not remember the specific reasons, but I think we can assume they’ve made the decision based on specific data, plus they’ve also looked over my whole profile.
I do in fact have pretty good grades in maths, and I’m doing A levels, so perhaps that could be a reason. The reason she said I should submit the score to WashU is because they’ll “appreciate my EBRW” score.
Well that’s a bit concerning, they should provide you the supporting rationale for submitting or not submitting. Some counselors build tables clearly showing the decision and rationale by school, footnoted with links to supporting data.
That makes sense, and might apply to other schools on the list too. It can be a tough call.
This is getting silly. It can’t be that only apps with 1600 scores should submit them. But, that’s where we’re headed. The bottom line is that aptitude tests just don’t carry the weight that they did a generation ago, and this is especially true of colleges that practice “holistic admissions”. But, even if they are not a hook in the traditional sense of the word, a decent score can at least act as a backstop, and lend credibility to an otherwise favorable impression.
The OP caught my eye, as he has the exact same overall score as S2, who is going into Stem (CompE). The main difference is that he had 800 math, which fits the STEM profile more.
I would say, hell yes, send in the 1510. It confirms that you are a top student. Have you thought about CMU? Doesn’t give much, if any financial aid for foreign students, but a friend of S1’s was accepted there with a 1480.
I wouldn’t be too intimidated - send in your score. There are only so many in the 1500’s. Just make sure you have a couple of match and reach schools.
“I assume the a counselor in Bombay dealing with this situation will have a better idea than posters here.”
The OP came here asking for advice on the score, so these counselors are probably not the Einsteinian geniuses you make them out to be. They also have biases and make mistakes, and in some cases are not going to know more than posters here. I’m not saying I’m one of them, but I think the OP got some unhelpful suggestions on submitting, and it’s fair to point them out.
You really shouldn’t go outside the official process for this because AOs would see it as being unfair to other applicants. Ask first if they’re ok with email score and later confirmation, before sending anything.
“The bottom line is that aptitude tests just don’t carry the weight that they did a generation ago”
Again, that depends on the college and major, here’s MIT’s view:
“Despite the limitations of these exams, our research shows that considering performance on the SAT/ACT substantially improves our ability to predict subsequent student success at MIT. When we have SAT/ACT scores for a student, we can more confidently assess their preparation; when we don’t, we have to look (even) harder at other factors, such as those listed in the next bullet point.”
If you apply to CS at CMU, you absolutely cannot send this math score.
I work with a college counselor who was an admissions officer at an Ivy League school as well as the director of admissions at a SLAC that was test optional long before Covid. This counselor’s advice would be similar to what you are hearing from your counseling group and VERY different that what many of the laymen on College Confidential are telling you to do. She sees a 1520 or above as necessary to apply to the reach colleges you mention, so your overall score is in the ballpark, but your math score may well eliminate you from the competition for a CS/STEM major.
Don’t trust me and don’t trust the others on this thread. You are paying a counseling group that you trust. They have far more insight into the odds for international students and they are incented to want you to succeed. Their advice to date has seems thoughtful and nuanced. I would trust them over a bunch of keyboard jockeys – myself included.
You don’t have to tell them your score. You can just ask if they have recommendations for when a score is helpful for an applicant to send based on the quartile they fall into.
I think we’re in agreement here. I wouldn’t put MIT or CalTech or HMC in the holistic admissions basket. They’re not looking to make their jobs harder than they already are.
Why would they not recommend that I send it? Won’t it just make their jobs easier, one way or another? Or is this something I should be asking anonymously?
Not sure how the snark advances the conversation. Regardless, it is not about who is a genius, it is about who is in the best position to make an informed decision based on actual scores and results from similarly situated applicants. Based on the posts here, no one seems to have the data necessary to make an informed decision. For the OP’s sake, I hope his counselors do and it sounds like they might.
MIT’s view would be exactly on point of this student was applying to MIT, which strongly recommends scores be sent if they are available. But compared to other Test Optional schools MIT is very much an outlier. “Test Strongly Preferred” would be a better description for MIT’s approach: If an applicant has access to a test, they should send it.
Other schools are more truly Test Optional in that the decision is left to the student as to how to best demonstrate their academic qualifications, and only that which is submitted will be considered (in other words, no negative inference.)