<p>There are plenty of selective schools where no one is assured of being in the top quartile going in and yet these schools have 95%+ graduation rates and similarly high medical school placement stats. I can’t recall any classmates in my pre-med classes who told me they were not able to get into a medical school after applying. I’m sure there were some and it may be more competitive now but this was never a worry of ours. What a shame to dumb down your college experience choosing a school where you can be assured of being academically superior to the rest of your class. Of course you can do poorly in a selective college but I wouldn’t live my life for the rare exception any more than I would be housebound because of a fear that I might have a car accident if I leave my residence. It must be tough to be a “glass is half empty” gal like mom2collegekids.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>A college experience can be dumbed down anywhere - because data shows, conclusively, that it’s what the student does at college that determines how valuable an education is received, not the selectivity or prestige of the college. And some students at the most highly selective colleges dumb down their educations by the choices they make - and still graduate with the prestigious degrees.</p>
<p>Classroom instruction can be dumbed down anywhere, but is it equally likely to be dumbed down anywhere? Surely the average class is not equally challenging or equally rich at every school. Do these variations have no effect at all on the quality of education (assuming equally motivated, equally capable students)?</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be afraid to go to top schools for pre-med if that is your choice but don’t think that is the only reason for best medical school acceptance. I have a few anecdote evidences that one went to CSLB and got into UCLA medical school, while others went to UCLA undergrad with 3.99 GPA and was rejected from UCLA medical school. There are other factors as well.
I also know recent graduate with a 3.3 GPA from top 50 schools with 34 MCAT that was accepted to at least a few medical schools in NY. But this student was not accepted right away, was accepted the second year. Continue to show that the medical profession is your calling and I think you will have a shot.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Great way to put it!</p>
<p>There are no guarantees anywhere in life, but one shouldn’t miss out on what they want along the way by worrying too much about what may happen in the future. Make choices, enjoy them, and don’t look back wondering “what if!”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There is research that shows that course rigor, at least as measured by examination rigor, does not necessarily correlate with selectivity. A study of course examination rigor at 40 research universities, which differed in undergraduate student body selectivity, concluded that “selectivity had no significant relationship with the percentage of examination questions asked at the higher-order levels of comprehension, application, or critical thinking levels." (Pascarella and Terenzini, 79-80).</p>
<p>This might be at least a partial explanation of the disparity in graduation rates between highly selective schools and less-selective ones. If, for example, freshman physics is taught at the same rigor at Yale and Northern Illinois, with the same expectation of the students, one would expect a much higher pass rate at Yale (average ACT 33 or so) than at NIU (average ACT 22 or so) - and that could explain the 90%+ grad rate at Yale and the 50% or so grad rate at NIU.</p>
<p>It would also mean that the A at NIU is worth just as much as the A at Yale - perhaps more, because the less-capable student surely needed to work a lot harder to achieve it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It seems obvious to me that the hard-working and capable ACT 33 student would do well in their class as NIU and come out on top of the curve (compared to the more typical average ACT 22 student) than would be the case at Yale where that student may curve out to an A- or B+ based on the strength of the competition. This exact thought process is being suggested on this thread where one poster thinks pre-meds should go to schools where they can be assured of being in the top 25% of the class. Even with grade inflation, I think you would conclude exactly opposite of what you have written above and that the A at super selective U. means more than it does at NIU because virtually all grading is scaled amongst your peers.</p>
<p>Except that apparently no one at Yale ever curves into the D or F range, since they almost all graduate. </p>
<p>As Deresciewicz says, “Getting through the gate is very difficult, but once you’re in, there’s almost nothing you can do to get kicked out. [examples given here, including academic failure, plagiarism, threatening other students] The feeling is that, by gosh, it just wouldn’t be fair—in other words, the self-protectiveness of the old-boy network, even if it now includes girls.”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It would be interesting to compare exams to see if they were, indeed, equal between these two places. I can see equality among certain broad levels (whether selective or not), but I would need to see it among these two to believe it (or any other 33 vs 22 comparison).</p>
<p>I know in high school a teacher can teach far more in depth to a student with a 33 vs a 22 IF one is considering the more academic subjects like math, English, or science. Students who take lower classes than they are capable of are often very bored at the slow pace and the more shallow depth. I can’t imagine that changes much at college. I know students who have transferred both up and down in caliber. Not once have they told me the course levels are equivalent, but I’ll admit I haven’t asked about every single class. Those who have transferred down told me the coursework was “better” for them though.</p>
<p>Annasdad-</p>
<p>Students do get D’s and F’s at Yale but they are surely uncommon. But that is besides the point. Why would an A at a less selective school mean more than an A at a highly selective school for the same highly motivated student who is taking advantage of his educational opportunities? Didn’t you just state that above?</p>