<p>A lot of people say to stay away from top schools because of the competition and stress, but if that's the case then why do schools such as Duke, JHU, and Rice have high acceptance rates to medical school? Can someone please elaborate?</p>
<p>There’s no reason to avoid so-called “top” schools (if you can afford the cost) - but there’s also no compelling reason to attend one. They tend to do well in med school admittance because they attract a lot of talented and hard-working students to begin with - but a talented and hard-working student can succeed at almost any college.</p>
<p>The advice I’ve mainly heard from folks is to go to the best school you can afford without oodles of debt. There are probably many who can afford those schools or who get decent need-based aid.</p>
<p>A student can get to med school from pretty much any college. Which med schools they go to can vary, but even for tippy top med schools (in rankings) one doesn’t have to come from a tippy top school.</p>
<p>Here’s a list WUSTL conveniently puts out showing where their med students did their undergrad over the last 16 years:</p>
<p>[Who</a> Chooses WU](<a href=“http://medadmissions.wustl.edu/HowtoApply/selectionprocess/Pages/WhoChoosesWU.aspx]Who”>http://medadmissions.wustl.edu/HowtoApply/selectionprocess/Pages/WhoChoosesWU.aspx)</p>
<p>Hover over Undergraduate Institutions Represented</p>
<p>The big names get more, but it’s certainly not exclusive. Those who choose less selective undergrad places also might not be as interested in a top anything med school (self-selecting numbers-wise, but that’s conjecture on my part).</p>
<p>No matter what, you have to do well at the undergrad you attend. If you don’t think you can be competitive at school A, it might be wise not to choose it. Just realize that med school, itself, is not a walk in the park nor is pre-med “easy” anywhere.</p>
<p>long story made short! always put “top” in quotes!
if you want a happy student body,great campuses and classes not taught by TA’s and a non cut throat environment … with amazing med school acceptances check out these three schools</p>
<p>Muhlenberg college
Hendrix college
Ursinus College</p>
<p>muhlenberg and urisnus both have a joint undergrad/ med school program, if you can get in and meet certain standards threw undergrad you can roll straight into med school!</p>
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<p>Regarding JHU, one key reason is that the premed committee who will write the (required) committee endorsement letter may actually be actively deterring weaker premed candidates from even applying to med-school at all, thereby maintaining the high ‘acceptance’ rate among those who do apply. </p>
<p>“I feel that [the premed committee members] try to demean people who’s grades are marginal in order to convince them not to go to medical school,” he said. The result is, said Gutterman, that people who could get in marginally with a 3.2 do not even apply. “They think people won’t get in, but I personally know people who’ve gotten in with a sub-3 GPA and sub-30 MCATs.”…A few premeds expressed their concern that the GPA and MCAT requirements held by Fishbein and Savage are merely an effort to maintain the high admit-rate of Hopkins premeds to medical school…</p>
<p>[Premed</a> office guides students through application process - Sports - The Johns Hopkins News-Letter - Johns Hopkins University](<a href=“http://www.jhunewsletter.com/sports/premed-office-guides-students-through-application-process-1.1143325#.T_BZr5H5Iuc]Premed”>http://www.jhunewsletter.com/sports/premed-office-guides-students-through-application-process-1.1143325#.T_BZr5H5Iuc)</p>
<p>This question came up as D was attending an EA admitted students open house at Notre Dame. Their answer tracked very closely with what Sakky says. They basically said that they support any student that decides to apply to med school. However, they are very active in working with and advising them, and this advising often results in students with borderline stats deciding not to apply or to delay their application.</p>
<p>Many schools, not just the ones you mentioned, have very high acceptance rates. </p>
<p>Do you understand what that means? </p>
<p>If a school has a 80%+ acceptance rate to med schools, and has 200 enterning frosh that are pre-med, that doesn’t mean that 160 of those frosh will end up in med school.</p>
<p>Schools heavily weed their pre-meds and students change their career paths because of grades or interest. So, a school can be “cut-throat” and have a high acceptance rate…because the ones who “sank” never applied to med school.</p>
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<p>I completely agree.</p>
<p>But “the best school you can afford” may not be “the most expensive school you can afford.” And what the best school is for one student is not necessarily the best school for another student.</p>
<p>Penn Medicine stats on the 166 person class that started in 2011 show 62 undergraduate colleges represented. The largest representation came from Penn (21), Harvard (12), Yale (12), Princeton (9), Cornell (7), UCB (7), Stanford (6), and Michigan (6) so nearly half the class came from these top tier eight schools. Some might say that kids from non “top” schools don’t apply to top medical schools or choose to matriculate to them and this explains this heavy weighting but it sure looks like doing well at a “top” school strongly assists in gaining admission to one of the top medical schools despite the CC mantra that UG institution doesn’t matter for medical school admissions.</p>
<p>If you don’t think you can handle the stress of competing for grades at a school that admits you and feels like you will succeed, you will have trouble completing medical school and internship. College science classes are a walk in the park compared with admitting critically ill patients as a sub-intern or intern.</p>
<p>To further answer your post…</p>
<p>A pre-med student should go where s/he is confident (not just hopeful) that s/he will get the best GPA and a good education. </p>
<p>Personally, I wouldn’t recommend a pre-med student go to a school where his/her stats (especially test scores, but GPA imp, too) aren’t well within the upper quartile of the school. </p>
<p>I think it can be a mistake for someone who luckily gets accepted to a high reach school, to go there for pre-med. I see this frequently in the pre-med section. Kids with good, but not tippy top stats, who got into Elite U, and now they don’t have the GPA needed for med school. Maybe the profs are moving too quickly for them or they aren’t “breaking concepts down” enough because they assume everyone is “on board”? Maybe there is a limit on A’s awarded in the class, and the near-perfect SAT kids earned them all? Maybe the student is too intimidated to ask questions when surrounded by a ton of smarty-pants? I’m not sure what it is. </p>
<p>My son and his cousin graduated HS the same year with very, very similar GPA, rank, SAT, ACT, and HS rigor/curriculum. Both attended very good Catholic prep schools. Both have the same major…ChemE and both pre-med. My son’s GPA (3.99 cum /4.0 BCMP) from a state flagship is much higher than my nephew’s GPA from an elite univ (around a 3.4 cum/3.3 BCMP). Neither are slackers/partiers…both are studious. My son is applying to med schools this summer. My nephew won’t be…he thinks his GPA (especially his BCMP GPA) would be a problem so he’s going with a ChemE career…which is totally fine, but who knows what he’ll regret later on. I think if he had gone to his second choice school…Santa Clara…he may have had a better GPA. But, no one can say for sure.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids nailed it. Anecdotally we saw the exact same thing she did with her son and cousin. </p>
<p>Less anecdotally, your state of residence makes a huge difference to your likelihood of being admitted to medical school - far more important than what school you attend. State medical schools, which are about half of the schools out there, often accept few or no out of state students. If you are a resident of one of those states, it doesn’t matter where you go to school if you have the necessary GPA and test scores to get in. So before you anguish over which college to attend, check the admission stats for your state medical school and see what you’re competing against. If you are from California, you are sunk- California has very few seats relative to the number of pre-meds in state. If you are from New Mexico, you’re chances of admission are many times better - no matter where you go to school.</p>
<p>Wow, this is very discouraging. I’m going to be a freshman at Williams in the fall. It was the most elite school I was accepted to and I chose it because I want to challenge myself and get the best education possible. However, this thread really discourages me; my only reason to not choose Williams is that I feel it may be too rigorous for me personally. I want to do pre-med and I am concerned about not being able to keep excellent grades/GPA. I convinced myself I couldn’t pass up the opportunity, but in the back of my mind I feel it may not be a good situation for me.</p>
<p>BePerfect, don’t flunk yourself before you even show up. </p>
<p>And check that admission stats for your state medical schools before you get too discouraged. You might be one of the lucky ones who comes from a state with relatively few in-state applicants/state medical school seats.</p>
<p>BePerfect62:</p>
<p>Don’t be discouraged. I’m in the minority here but I certainly don’t agree with M2Ck’s advice. There is so much more to college than getting into medical school and you will be enriched by the educational challenge and your classmates at Williams. These highly selective schools only take kids that they know can succeed there. Good luck.</p>
<p>* These highly selective schools only take kids that they know can succeed there*</p>
<p>ha!</p>
<p>Right, like no one ever flunks out or gets a lowish GPA at highly selective schools. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>And there’s a difference between “suceeding” (which can mean just getting the grades needed to graduate), and getting the GPA needed for med schools.</p>
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<p>I agree!</p>
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<p>You will challenge yourself more there, but admissions obviously thought you were up to the challenge. You should think so too.</p>
<p>With my position in public school I see oodles of kids go on to various colleges. Those who pick colleges well below their level seldom report as great an experience at college as those who pick colleges at their level. Williams sends several on to professional and grad schools. There’s no reason at all that you can’t be one of them. You do NOT need to be the top student in each of your classes to get there. You don’t even need to be the second best student in all of your classes. Several, each year, will get accepted to med schools. Follow your pre-med adviser’s advice, study, get involved, skip the party scene (mostly), do well on your MCAT, and you’ll likely be another one of their success stories and probably will have enjoyed the journey more than if you had chosen a school that didn’t fit you as well.</p>
<p>If you psych yourself out over a thread on cc (or anywhere else), you’ll lose the battle without ever being in it.</p>
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<p>Well, this happens at schools like UA too… and is more often a factor of too much partying or other extra curricular activities (including a love life) than not being able to do better. It’s actually less likely to happen at a smaller school where they do a better job at shepherding their students than a larger school where you need to sink or swim IME.</p>
<p>Creekland, was I claiming that kids don’t flunk out at other schools? Uh, no. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>College is for adults. If you think that smaller schools are somehow shepherding students in a way that prevents them from letting partying, love life, depression, whatever, from interfering with grades/success, you’re in for a surprise when you start hearing about various kids who’ve had to leave the school, change majors, stop being pre-med, etc, because of their grades. My older son attends an elite school…no one is babysitting these kids. </p>
<p>My reponse was to Yaledad’s claim that top schools only accept kids that “they know” (ha ha) will succeed. As if being accepted to a top school is a sign from The Elite Gods that your future success is guaranteed. The implication is that if you get accepted to a top school as pre-med, then you’re sure to get accepted to a SOM (and a top one at that). That is so wrong.</p>
<p>M2CK, all sort of “distractions” are out there at all levels of college. Having seen students from both large and small schools, I’ll stand by my statement that smaller schools do a better job of shepherding students - much better in general. There’s no real comparison though different small schools have different policies with advisers, professors, etc. I’ve yet to hear a student from a large school tell me stories about a prof contacting them regarding missing a couple of classes. I’ve heard that from a few at small colleges. They don’t actually do the work for the students and neither place guarantees success. Those accepted are students who the adcoms feel CAN succeed.</p>
<p>I should also add a note that not all students WANT the shepherding of a small college. That’s an individual fit deal. Success can come from either place and places in the middle.</p>
<p>Freshman retention and 4/6 year graduation rates will give a feel for how many succeed with a degree. Checking into numbers (not rates) of who goes on to med school and where they go, then adjust for the size of the school, will give a feel for how well pre-med students do in general at a given place. Stats never apply to the individual though, but they do show the odds. Life is all about playing odds and working to achieve goals.</p>
<p>I’ve yet to hear a student from a large school tell me stories about a prof contacting them regarding missing a couple of classes</p>
<p>Really? I sure have. I’ve also heard of large schools that contact EVERY student who hasn’t joined at least one club or something by mid fall frosh semester to make sure that each student is adjusting/finding his place at the school.</p>