<p>fallenchemist</p>
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<p>Actually I agree with you a parent is not obligated to do so - but they should and the colleges exepct them to do so. Furthermore, I am looking at it more from the perspective of the FA process than anything else. I am sure you would agree, it makes no sense for a college to give FA to a student because their parents simply refuse to pay the tuition.</p>
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<p>fallen, it is inexcusable for you to comment on Rocket’s family circumstances. You don’t know the details (neither do I) nor should we. That is an obnoxious statment for an adult to make to a child on this forum!</p>
<p>This thread is gettin gpoisonous because posters are injecting their view of what scholarships/entitlements colleges should or should not offer.</p>
<p>The decision to offer scholarships/entitlements is entirely up to the college in question.</p>
<p>The only point is, an applicant may reasonably assume that when a college advertises merit aid, it is additive to need-based aid. It is an addition of a couple of disclaimer lines beneath the tout lines describing the merit program.</p>
<p>This thread demonstrates the havoc and heartache that results when colleges do not do so. For those who disagree, I bet you also sided with Ursula the sea hag in The Little Mermaid. Shame on you.</p>
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<p>No one should be taking shots at Rocket OR her family.</p>
<p>Rocket is not claiming entitlement to anything: she only wishes the “merit award” program limitations were clearly disclosed at the time she was deciding which colleges to apply to. I agree with her.</p>
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<p>Really? I’ll put my general savvy in business affairs up against anyone’s anywhere, and certainly above the average family’s (call me arrogant). Yet you could have knocked me over with a feather as the the program limitations of merit awards emerged on this thread.</p>
<p>You can always find fault with the more questions that should have been asked etc. But colleges know they are dangling these carrots, so they should dangle them with care.</p>
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<p>Totally. I said the exact same thing some posts back.</p>
<p>Wow, go away and do some work and look what happens. I agree with Nightchef. I know I certainly thought that a little outside scholarship would be reduced from my oldest son’s EFC. I guess I didn’t think college merit scholarships would reduce the EFC because I always just thought of those as tuition discounting, but yes, outside scholarships I though were on “our side” of the equation. This is an important thread because I agree with Nightchef that the thinking of “ours” vs. “theirs” is what one automatically goes to. In terms of the “fairness” of the parental responsibility I have to side with the private colleges. There is a process where students with exceptional circumstances can ask for a review since nothing is distinctly black and white but factoring intially all parents both mom and dad regardless of the marital circumstances is fair since it is equally applied to all. Families can circumvent this by applying to FAFSA only colleges and unis so there is an “outlet” for the single parent. There is also an “outlet” for a student whose parent won’t contribute via the state’s public institutions either 2-year or non-flagship 4 year. Many students do piece together their education availing themselves of those opportunities. Again, want and need are often not closely aligned. R6Louise will find the path, no doubt, and neither she nor anyone should put the cart before the horse because the answer to whether she can finance her dream education or not is still unanswered. I for one hope the best for her and don’t think there was any entitlement attitude, simply a lack of knowledge that many parents, I’m sure, could 'fess up to.</p>
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<p>There you go with the assumptions again. Hmmm, lets see, what if I assume my d is entitled to a free ride just because I think she is. Is it the colleges’s fault or mine if she doesn’t get it?</p>
<p>that in effect is what you are saying - because YOU make a faulty ASSUMPTION, it is the college’s fault - not yours.</p>
<p>Wow.</p>
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<p>Wrong. Rocket didn’t seek a case-specific analysis, all she wanted was the ability to understand that AS A GENERAL PROGRAM FEATURE merit award would not reduce EFC for FA applicants. No need for the program limitations to be tailored to individuals.</p>
<p>clueless - if your “general savvy in business affairs” means making those kinds of assumptions with no supporting facts, then I want to offer you some investment opportunities.</p>
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<p>First, no one is taking shots at her - we are pointing out the facts.</p>
<p>Second, you and she should have assumed nothing. All it would have taken is a quick phone call to the FA office or asking a question at an info session to know how things actually work. It is your and her fault for assuming rather than asking</p>
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<p>Which schools advertised this?</p>
<p>You let your 17 year old navigate this process with no outside help, and you see what kind of assumptions they make…</p>
<p>sybbie-Scripps specifically sent me a letter that said we have X scholarship available. If you get this and have need, it is possible for your education to be paid free(obviously i’m paraphrasing)</p>
<p>i think anyone would assume what I did</p>
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<p>Wrong. This was the quote (emphasis mine) “it’s also not fair to advertise merit to kids who really can’t afford their EFC…”</p>
<p>I call that very case type specific and my comment about “how are they supposed to know that” specifically referred to cases where kids cannot afford their EFC, not those applying for FA or reducing EFC as a general program feature, which is how you made it sound. You really will try anything, won’t you?</p>
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<p>LOL - I was thinking the same thing.</p>
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<p>Again - who’s fault is that?</p>
<p>you know what? this whole thread disgusts me</p>
<p>I simply try to make a point that colleges should be a bit more clear with finaid policies…that’s it…and it turns into a big debate on how I think I’m entitled and my parents are terrible for not wanting to pay for my education.</p>
<p>I made some assumptions-and those are my fault…but seriously…some of you guys need to grow a heart…</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure I’m off this thread…i really can’t take it</p>
<p>Rocket, quit beating yourself up…parents make the same assumption that you did, several have admitted to that. And yes, there are thousands of posts here relative to “getting a free ride” etc. but the bottom line is that out of the thousands and thousands of kids that head off to college that situation is but a small percentage. The whole marketing approach regarding meeting need with grants for incomes under such and such also leads kids and parents astray since it’s really income and assets not just income. Many parents remember doing it on their own dime with little understanding of just how close to impossible that is today. I had to sit my husband down 2 decades ago and put the thumbscrews to him about saving for our children because he had “paid his own way.” In some respects the colleges do include in every e-mail, in every mailing, on every web page how they work to make college education “affordable.” Well guess what “affordable” is a very vague term that means something different to everyone. So whether it’s 17 year old Rocket or 50+ year old Momofthreeboys it is not difficult to get caught up in the bold print and forget the fine print.</p>
<p>Rocket6. Scripps was a special case (how they treated scholarship recipients in FA when my D applied). p.m. me if you want to know my horribly out-dated “insider” info. ;)</p>
<p>p.s. You might not be dead just yet. ;)</p>
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From the college’s perspective, they are advertising, say, a half-tuition scholarship. That means that the cost of tuition will be cut in half each year. If you apply for financial aid, the aid is calculated using the new discounted EFC. Most top schools will use merit to cover loans and workstudy first, so you are not entirely shafted–but yes, merit money is less “worth it” to FA kids than full-pay kids. That’s just how the (unfair) system works. The college isn’t deceiving you because the fundamental assumption of the (unfair) FA system is that your parents will pay their EFC. The FA system didn’t crush your dreams–your parents did, because the societal responsibility is on them whether you/your family agree with that expectation or not.</p>
<p>I don’t think either your parents or the college is “terrible,” but if you force me to pick one, the burden is on your parents. Sorry if that offends you. You want sympathy, and you have gotten it–interspersed with lecture, as you might also have expected.</p>
<p>In many cases, merit PARTIALLY stacks with need-based by eliminating loans and workstudy, so a statement like “our merit does NOT stack with need-based [aid]” is false. I agree that some sort of explanation would be nice; thankfully, this information is often reiterated on CC’s FA forums.</p>
<p>36k of debt is not an unreasonable number for someone who is paying for college without parental assistance. If YOU think it unreasonable, then it’s your responsibility to find and apply to schools that will give you a more generous award. SOME merit scholarships don’t automatically cancel loans and work, either–they go half-and-half (half reducing grant, half reducing self-help) or are factored completely into need-based grant if the college feels stingy. Worst-case scenario: you win a 15k merit scholarship and still have to pay 9k EFC + 20k loans + 20k work. You might have been better off applying to need-only schools that have no-loans or capped-loans policies, since merit never reduces EFC unless the offered merit award eclipses your entire projected need-based package.</p>
<p>You would need to post the specific wording of Scripps’s letter, because I suspect that your paraphrase includes unfounded worldview assumptions. Scripps has exactly ONE full ride scholarship, the New Generation award.</p>
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Bolded is false. An applicant has a responsibility to him/herself to research this issue (perhaps by asking admissions straight out, or through CC) instead of making an assumption that is not considered “reasonable” by 99.9% of colleges (i.e. every school I know of).</p>
<p>As an adult AND a professional financial advisor, I will admit that the entire financial aid process has been more than a little daunting. My son has applied to 5 schools and they ALL have a dramatically different view as to how they treat “aid”. The key here is to talk to EACH AND EVERY financialo aid office to really understand how they view various situations. To illustrate: assume EFC calculated at $20,000, student receives “merit” outside scholarship of $10,000 from parent employer or other non-college source. My understanding is</p>
<p>IVY’s: Guarantees! will 100% “Need” BUT offers no merit aid. 50K COA. EFC=$20,000 outside scholarship will reduce what aid the IVY needs to fill. They may reduce/eliminate loans and work study but out of pocket = $20K</p>
<p>SUNY Binghamton: feels all their students are top level and hence only award “merit” aid to sophmores and above after viewing freshman performance. freshman aid is primarily need only. COA = $20,000. no need based if EFC =$20,000 so student benefits from FULL outside scholarship and out-of pocket = $10,000</p>
<p>University of Rochester: awards "need based aid from Financial aid office and admissions office reviews for merit based need. so it is possible to receive a more attractive aid package from UR than Dartmouth. Will still reduce package by outside scholarship.</p>
<p>Colorado College: offers both need and merit AND does not reduce aid package by any outside scholarships. Trust me - this has been a big incentive to apply for anything and everything. Outside aid will reduce my heafty EFC. Furthermore, they guarantee the aid package for 4 years so you can actually budget!</p>
<p>University of Vermont: safety school for my son. Thought they might “incent” him to attend with money. he was accepted into the Honors college. However, they are a state school and notorious for not giving much to out-of state-ers. COA =40,000 EFC of $20,000 but they don’t tend to fill 100%. Can receive $6,000 Presidential “merit” scholarship but not have "need met and out-of-pocket can be $34,000.</p>
<p>Long post. Suffice it to say - you have to research and ASK.</p>
<p>good luck rocket, and clueless= I like your attitude</p>