Should merit award impact "need based" aid?

[Keilexandra]

<p>^Something else important to note: a given college may not treat institutional and outside merit aid the same way.</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>

"m hoping(not assuming…i realize it’s a long shot) to replace my EFC with merit. My top two schools(Smith and Scripps) both allow you to do this. They first erase work, then loans, then EFC. So, while it may not replace everything, it’ll surely help

</p>

<p>have you read Scripps booklet put of by their office of FA?</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.scrippscollege.edu/financial-aid/pdf/2009-10%20Understanding%20Your%20Offer%20of%20Financial%20Aid%20EN.pdf[/url]”>Financial Aid | Scripps College in Claremont, California;

<p>according to scripps( p1)</p>

<p>

The College determines a family’s contribution toward educational costs using two separate analyses: one based on a federal formula and one based on an institutional methodology. </p>

<p>Because the College must find an equitable way to disburse its own aid funds, the Scripps calculation takes into consideration factors (such as medical and dental expenses not covered by insurance, home equity, non-custodial parent income) not considered by the federal government. </p>

<p>Your family contribution will not be the same as your Federal “EFC” (Expected Family Contribution) on your Federal Student Aid Report (SAR).
Scripps College expects both student’s parents to contribute to the educational expenses of their student. Part of the costs for which your family is responsible may include a contribution from your non-custodial parent.</p>

<p>Also included in the family contribution is the expectation that 50% of a student’s earnings are available to assist in meeting her educational costs. </p>

<p>At a minimum, students are expected to contribute the following amounts from non-academic year earnings:
First year $1,200
Second year $1,400
Third year $1,400
Fourth year and beyond $1,500
Additionally, a student’s contribution will include a portion of whatever assets she may have.</p>

<ol>
<li> Your financial aid eligibility is the difference between your cost of education and your total resources

</li>
</ol>

<p>According to Scripps (P3)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Students are responsible for informing the Office of Financial Aid in writing when they are notified of scholarship awards. Federal regulations require that all outside scholarships/grants/awards be considered as a resource. Loans are reduced by the amount received from outside sources. If the amount received from outside sources exceeds the loan amount, the work amount is reduced by the remaining funds available from outside scholarships. Outside scholarships exceeding the loan and work amounts may reduce Scripps Grant funds. Scholarships and grants from outside organizations are credited as expected aid until funds are received by the College.

</p>

<p>The only type of "full ride scholarship offered by the school is </p>

<p>New Generation Award</p>

<p>

The college awards one New Generation scholarship per year.</p>

<p>This competitive and highly prestigious award covers tuition and fees, room, board, three round-trip airfares home annually, and a $3,000 summer research stipend to be used during the recipient’s years at Scripps.

</p>

<p>Unless I am missing something, even if you receive “merit in need” it will not eliminate your EFC.</p>

[cluelessdad]

<p>

There you go with the assumptions again. Hmmm, lets see, what if I assume my d is entitled to a free ride just because I think she is. Is it the colleges’s fault or mine if she doesn’t get it?</p>

<p>that in effect is what you are saying - because YOU make a faulty ASSUMPTION, it is the college’s fault - not yours.

</p>

<p>And there you go again being disrespectful of a different point of view. The question is what is a reasonable assumption. And if you are ever in a business dispute you will find you will get your clock cleaned if you think you can get away with unreasonable dealing – good faith and fair dealing is implied in every business transaction. So just saying an assumption is in the mix answers nothing. (Although you are safe from a dispute with me, because I would never choose to do business with someone who cuts it as caveat emptor as you do.)</p>

<p>The example you posit is clearly unreasonable so unhelpful to the discussion.</p>

[Keilexandra]

<p>^You call the debated assumption “reasonable,” but colleges (as a whole) disagree. Therefore, you must revise your assumption of reasonability in this particular context.</p>

[cluelessdad]

<p>

clueless - if your “general savvy in business affairs” means making those kinds of assumptions with no supporting facts, then I want to offer you some investment opportunities.

</p>

<p>I do fine, thanks. Who knows, maybe we’ve done a deal? Although I routinely get bested by the braintrust of business talent based in Rhode Island …</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>

You let your 17 year old navigate this process with no outside help, and you see what kind of assumptions they make…

</p>

<p>I did not let my 17 y/o navigate the process by herself at a cost of $48k/yr (whether it was my money or the school’s) this parent was definitely going to be involved, especially when they were looking for a check my household.</p>

<p>By the same token, I do not let the 17 y/olds I see for a living navigate the process by themselves, which is why I spend 5 classroom periods a week (over a 15 week term) and numerous one-on-ones discussing the FA process with them ;).</p>

[rocket6louise]

<p>^I’m sorry I wasn’t given that luxury
my bad</p>

[cluelessdad]

<p>

Which schools advertised this?

</p>

<p>Every college that touts merit awards on their website advertises it, precisely to attract top quality applicants. They can make the limitations for FA applicants clear in the same place.</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>Are you saying your school has no GC or college advisor? </p>

<p>Are you saying that the GC or college advisor is not versed in financial aid?</p>

<p>Are you saying that you did not seek out their advice?</p>

<p>testing for understanding</p>

[cluelessdad]

<p>

Wrong. This was the quote (emphasis mine) “it’s also not fair to advertise merit to kids who really can’t afford their EFC…”</p>

<p>I call that very case type specific and my comment about “how are they supposed to know that” specifically referred to cases where kids cannot afford their EFC, not those applying for FA or reducing EFC as a general program feature, which is how you made it sound. You really will try anything, won’t you?

</p>

<p>Now you are just being willfully obtuse. A general statement on program limitations for FA is all that was requested. You can cover your ears and insist on distorting the fact set, but it doesn’t change the legitimate topic in discussion.</p>

[rocket6louise]

<p>my GC is a complete moron. I asked him a question about the CSS Profile and HE DIDN"T KNOW IT EXISTED…I am not even kidding you. Plus, he has 400 kids to deal with and coaches football…he doesn’t exactly have time</p>

<p>When my dad got sick and our financial situation changed, I was the one to call the schools to understand finaid better and how to appeal it and everything</p>

<p>Our GC’s see maybe 3 kids a year go to good schools, most kids don’t go to college and those that do go to community. We don’t “college counsel”…top kids are on their own</p>

<p>I have tried to get advice wherever I can…there isn’t much to be had where I"m from…</p>

[skier29]

<p>see my post #240. None of the 5 schools “advertise” their philosophy on financial aid in any real detail. I had what I thought were reasonable assumptions. Many of them turned out to be outright wrong at some institutions and dead-on right at another. Universally however, I have found the financial aid officers to be human beings willing to provide some direction and willing to at least listen to unique circumstances. We shall see how it all turns out!</p>

[cluelessdad]

<p>

LOL - I was thinking the same thing.

</p>

<p>Berry, I think we have already established you flunk the business ethics background check to do a deal in my world. So sorry, go peddle your swampland somewhere else.</p>

[curmudgeon]

<p>sybbie, I know that many, many students have GC’s just like Rocket6’s. I know my D’s couldn’t calculate an UW GPA on a 4.0 scale, and said that in her 20 year career no one had ever asked her for one. I did it for her in my head (not that terribly hard when it’s all A’s ;)). </p>

<p>Rocket6, you’re doing the best you can. Let all this “negativity” be like water off a duck’s back. You made a mistake. I’ve made bigger. I can guarantee it. ;)</p>

[Kajon]

<p>rocket - I hope you can find an adult to help you through this process. I realize that your GC is not at the top of his game, but how about your principal or one of your teachers.</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>

To illustrate: assume EFC calculated at $20,000, student receives “merit” outside scholarship of $10,000 from parent employer or other non-college source. My understanding is</p>

<p>IVY’s: Guarantees! will 100% “Need” BUT offers no merit aid. 50K COA. EFC=$20,000 outside scholarship will reduce what aid the IVY needs to fill. They may reduce/eliminate loans and work study but out of pocket = $20K

</p>

<p>But are you calculating your EFC using the Federal or the institutional methodology? Schools that use the profile will only use your FAFSA EFC only to the extent where your son is eligible for federal aid. They will distribute institutional aid based on the information from the profile. You could be in for more of a shock once the packages arrive.</p>

[cluelessdad]

<p>

Bolded is false. An applicant has a responsibility to him/herself to research this issue (perhaps by asking admissions straight out, or through CC) instead of making an assumption that is not considered “reasonable” by 99.9% of colleges (i.e. every school I know of).

</p>

<p>Wrong. The proper test of reasonableness is not what 99.9% of the offering colleges think or know, but what a reasonable family looking at the merit award information as described by such colleges would glean – the eyes of the reasonable consumer.</p>

<p>Some will take the view caveat emptor as to all nuances; I think most college consumers would reasonably assume merit would apply at full value for FAs as well as full-pays</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>Rocket, is there still time to add schools to your list? Some schools have extended their deadlines and others have deadlines until 2/15.</p>

<p>I would suggest doing a search on the common application website. If you have exhausted your fee waivers, some offer free on-line and perhaps your GC can give you some NACAC fee waivers.</p>

[rocket6louise]

<p>Kajon-I think it’s a little late to have an adult help me…but hopefully I can help my little sister get through this process with all my knowledge gained</p>

<p>sybbie-if you have a suggestion, please feel free. I’ve tried to find schools I could still apply to but with no luck</p>

[skier29]

<p>rocket - sounds like you are doing an admirable job under very difficult circumstances. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. There are PLENTY of adults out there who don’t have nearly the handle on things that you do - proven by the sheer number of contradictory posts on this thread alone. Keep researching all your options and don’t be shy about contacting aid offices. Consider also writing them a letter explaining your circumstances. the sooner the better since a lot of aid goes quick this time of year</p>