<p>The flaw in this is that you are not looking at what happens after you graduate. Example: You apply to a school that costs $50,000. You get $25,000 merit, your EFC is $9,000, so you need $16,000 in loans (let’s ignore work-study). If you take this package you owe $64,000 at the end of 4 years (for simplicity let’s say no COA change). If you didn’t get the merit and still wanted to go to that school, you would owe $164,000 at the end of 4 years. It is as simple as that, right?</p>
<p>So even if they did what some of you wanted and took the merit money to offset EFC (which I agree shouldn’t happen, it is the EFC of the family, not the EFC of the university where the $25K came from), the cost is still $50,000. So you would need to take that extra $9,000 as even more loans. Surely you are not saying they should reduce their sticker price tuition to $25K and start from there. that makes no sense and would create a severe hardship for all but the richest schools. Merit scholarships would virtually disappear first.</p>
<p>At the time they are deciding where the student should apply, families may have an idea of their EFC but they will not know whether any school will actually meet that EFC. They will have no idea how many schools will come up with a different EFC than an online calculator produced for them. For most schools, they will not know if loans will be a part of the FA package. Even if their student qualifies for individual college merit scholarships, they will not know if the money will be awarded. They don’t even know if their child will be accepted to the school. No one can know in advance, for sure, that their child will be so highly sought after that schools will be offering FA, discounts, merit, etc to attend. They may not yet know the extent of outside scholarships. We can all hope. But we better not plan on it. For that reason, I have seen many, many theads here advocating a mix of schools and a greater than average number of applications for families looking to maximize FA/Merit monies for college.</p>
<p>Is it presumptuous for me to ask if it is possible for someone to spell these basics out and sticky it to the top of the parents forum?</p>
<p>rocketlouise: Please don’t freak out! It sounds like you are in great shape. Good luck!</p>
<p>They are not illusory at all. You think they are because you came in with a false notion, and not one that the universities put forth or perpetuated. As has been made clear by me and others, the merit award indeed reduces the long term obligations of the recipient by reducing the loans needed in the future. Since when is coming out of college with less debt illusory, or a bad thing?</p>
<p>I like St. Olaf’s policy of removing loans and work study from a FA package if a student gets an outside merit award. That’s a win-win for everyone. The student gets definite benefit for pursuing outside aid, and the school can conserve financial resources (loans and work) to extend to other students. On the other hand, I’m sure I’ve read here on CC of schools that first cut institutional merit aid when a student has outside merit aid. In cases like that, it really does seem like a waste of time for the student to put in the effort to apply for outside aid. It would be wonderful if there was some sort of good practices code that advocated for a St. Olaf’s style FA packaging rule. Next best would be colleges having to disclose on their website how they deal with stacked awards. Does anyone know if there are any guidelines like this already?</p>
<p>That only means you assumed that the term merit scholarship meant less EFC in the short term. No college states that, and it doesn’t take much sleuthing to find out the truth. One phone call to any FA office, some quick searching here or by Google, or finding the right FA web page on most college’s sites would quickly reveal the facts. It actually isn’t that nuanced, even.</p>
<p>alh, well the purpose of merit scholarships is to increase stong applicant applications to that college. The CC community is not the real world and a better understanding of merit scholarships is clearly material to making shortlist application decisions, regardless of the admissions/awards unknowns.</p>
<p>I would love to see this thread continue to parse the treatment of merit/need of various colleges. St Olaf is an excellent college and that strong merit language looks like a need-based scholar magnet to me.</p>
On the contrary, that’s exactly the kind of purchase where it’s absolutely essential to do your homework with obsessive thoroughness. When you make mistakes in buying a car or a refrigerator, you can learn from those mistakes and apply that knowledge next time you make a similar purchase. You’re only going to pick an undergraduate college once (hopefully), and the stakes are extremely high. So you need to read everything and assume nothing and ask a lot of questions.</p>
<p>I’ve been guilty of this myself–I skimmed too hastily through a page at one of my son’s schools and missed an important piece of information that will prevent him from getting a substantial scholarship that he would probably have qualified for. It was an easy piece of information to miss, but I don’t blame the college, I blame myself–it was right there for me to see if I had been more careful. They weren’t trying to hide anything from me.</p>
<p>Fallen, you make a lot of assumptions about what the loan component of a EFC package would be. Some colleges are quite careful about the max the would allocate to loans, and the interst rates which would apply. </p>
<p>I didn’t say the mix is of NO value, just less, and I think the methodology would typically be replacing loans, w/s, THEN reducing EFC.</p>
<p>nightchef, in that case, the college disclosed it and you didn’t read it. Big difference.</p>
<p>I’ll just say that if there were similar undisclosed strings attached in a car purchase, the consumer fraud lawsuits would be soon to follow. There is a basic obligation to fairly disclose terms in consumer transactions.</p>
<p>Do you really fault Rocket’s search diligence?</p>
<p>I have the impression this is dealt with on a case by case basis and colleges want that freedom. Maybe not all colleges, but the ones with which I am familiar. I honestly believe in the end it comes down to how much a particular college wants a particular student.</p>
<p>Clueless- you wrote:
Colleges buy talenteed athletes with full-ride athletic scholarships all the time. Here, IN THE CASE OF MERIT AWARDS, colleges are seeking to buy top scholars.</p>
<p>So rather than flogging the dead horse, let me just state that you are incorrect with this assertion. I know many kids receiving “merit awards” and to describe these kids as top scholars is not just incorrect, it flies in the face of the stated criteria from the organizations who make the awards possible.</p>
<p>Leadership (defined anyway they want); attending a “scholarship weekend” involving interviews and receptions to hob-nob with trustees and donors; service awards (to organizations which fit some pre-determined criteria), artistic ability, stated desire to major in elementary education or large animal agriculture; a graduate of a certain denomination’s parochial school; I could go on but you get the drift.</p>
<p>This isn’t “merit” in the way you think it is, i.e. top grades and top scores. The fact that grades and scores are used as a convenient sorting device doesn’t change the fact that the awards for most places are not awarded on the basis of “top scores trumps”. The kid in my neighborhood who got a merit award because she wants to major in elementary education is for sure not the “most scholarly” or meritorious kid at that college. She may in fact be among the top scoring kids who have stated an interest in that major- or she may be extraordinarily lucky that she was the only kid above a certain cut-off who bothered to write the extra essay and show up for her interview with the department chair.</p>
<p>Who knows. But don’t assume that because it’s called “Merit” (to distinguish it from need) it is given to the most meritorious. And frankly, I’ve never seen a scholarship application which states, “if you get the highest scores and GPA we’re giving you $20K”. The kid I know who hit the lottery last year at Brandeis got nothing until he informed the school he was leaning towards Dartmouth. I don’t think schools need to advertise, “we’ll give you nothing until we find out you’re heading towards a non-peer institution, in which case we’ll evaluate.”</p>
<p>And it is no accident that the religiously affiliated colleges either award merit dollars to kids who volunteer for their own denominations causes (or that are compatible with them), or try to target dollars to kids who specifically identify with another religion. If you are Sacred Heart and are trying to attract Catholic kids who might otherwise prefer Villanova or Fordham, it makes sense to target dollars to kids whose applications emphasize their affiliation with the church. But if you are Fordham and are trying to compete with kids who might prefer NYU or BU, you may be more generous with the non-Catholics in your admissions pools.</p>
<p>cluelessdad - it isn’t an EFC package, it is an FA (financial aid) package. And sure, to keep it simple I made assumptions. The point is that one way or another if the kid goes to that school, it reduces the total $ they have to come up with and therefore the debt when they get out. In my example, it is $25K less they have to borrow, no matter where they borrow it from. Sure the school might only cover 70% of what is left and therefore they have to get the other 30% from Uncle Charlie or whatever. It is still 70% of a much smaller number, and the scholarship is not a Trojan Horse, as you seem to want to paint it to be.</p>
<p>And colleges do disclose how merit awards affect financial aid packages. To expect everything to be laid out on one web page and not have to make the simplest of inquiries instead of making a baseless assumption is ridiculous. The only way to think that a merit scholarship reduces EFC is to assume that and do no checking at all. Two or 3 clicks and you would find it easily, or even more easily make one phone call.</p>
<p>Why would EFC ever be reduced because of a scholarship? I don’t understand this position at all. If a family can afford $9,000, that is their obligation. Now one can argue how accurate the EFC calculations are, but that is a different issue. In the end, that family would just be putting off the $ until later anyway. You seem to want the college to basically start with a lower sticker price and THEN apply the scholarship, which is double counting. It makes no sense.</p>
<p>I am the perfect example. My EFC would probably be $30-40K. I don’t know for sure because I didn’t go through the process. My D goes to a school that costs $50K+. She got a full tuition scholarship, worth let’s say $37K. You think I should be let off the hook for the remaining $13K? How does that make any sense? It is the same with people that have EFC’s that are only part of what’s left. They have to come up with what is remaining after the scholarship, both from EFC and from what is not met by the school via FA of the remaining amount, if any.</p>
<p>I’ve contacted Scripps FinAid, and despite the merit “in combination with” need language, the JES Merit Scolarship would not reduce EFC, although Scripps indicated they are reasonable about considering extenuating EFC circumstances.</p>
<p>I think Smith and Scripps are both extraordinary colleges, but do hope they improve this aspect of their websites describing their merit program paramenters.</p>
<p>At a large number of schools is a student receives an outside scholarship (even at the Ivies) the student’s self help portion of the financial aid package (work study, loans) are reduced first. </p>
<p>If the outside scholarship is more than the amount of self help aid some schools will allow for the monies to be used for the one time puchase of a computer.</p>
<p>What one must also keep in mind that only a small number of schools meet 100% demonstrated need (even fewer meet 100% demonstrated need with no loans).</p>
<p>Unless your child is getting a full ride scholarship, if you are attending a school with a $50k price tag, even if you get some merit $ it is not going to be enough that it absolves you from paying your EFC. </p>
<p>Chedva and berryberry gave good examples on how merit aid affects need based FA.</p>
<p>I think we also need to remember the definition of demonstrated need.</p>
<p>Cost of attendance (tuition, room, board, books, misc.) - EFC (based on parents and student income/assets) = demonstrated need.</p>
<p>Most time when a student is given a merit scholarship, it will reduce the amount of the demonstrated need. In order to have the EFC reduced, the merit $ whether given by the school or outside sources will pretty much have to cover the entire demonstrated need before the EFC is affected.</p>
<p>I also agree with the others who stated that you must read the “fine print” associated with merit money.</p>
<p>Is it automatically renewable for the next 4 years</p>
<p>is it renewable for the same amount of money?</p>
<p>is scholarship adjusted to take into consideration tuition increases (about 5% per year)</p>
<p>Is there a gpa requirement needed to keep getting the money?</p>
<p>when does the gpa requirement start (by the end of fall term or the end of spring term)?</p>
<p>is there a phase in to the gpa requirement?</p>
<p>what happens if son does does not meet gpa requirement, does money leave immediately or is there a grace period?</p>
<p>if you/your child loses scholarship and brings grades back up is money reinstated?</p>
<p>ask the financial aid office what percent of students lose their merit money in the first year.</p>
<p>and the most important question… worse case scenario if you/your child were to lose the scholarship would you still be able to swing the cost of attending?</p>
<p>fallen, it is an easy disclosure for colleges to make and colleges should make it upfront. With respect, what is an easy piece of information for you with your high knowledge level on the college admissions game (I bow to your superior knowledge of the proper usage of FA and EFC) IS information that most families would never even dream would be in play.</p>
<p>Most families do not apply to xx colleges, do not know that scholarships/EFCs are variable, and do make application choices taking the tease of merit scholarships at face value and should not be faulted for doing so.</p>
<p>BTW, I would appreciate it if you would have the courtesy not to refer to another poster’s views as ridiculous. Let’s stay civil, please.</p>
<p>^^Well then I cannot say what I think because the moderators would delete it. Maybe I am safe in saying that people that think the world is like that seem like children to me. I just hate that we have to dumb down the world this way. No one can think of everything. As soon as they do what you want, there will be something else you will complain that they should be doing. Anything with this much money at stake deserves a couple minutes of research. I am sorry you don’t get that.</p>
<p>I am still not even sure what you want them to disclose. That the merit award is now considered an asset? That it doesn’t reduce EFC? They don’t even know if you will be applying for FA. If you are applying for FA, you will have to get those forms, look at that site, and there it will be. This is why all people are told they have to apply to financial SAFETIES. Should they disclose that too? Do you want them to come to your house and fill out all the forms for you? They really cannot hold your hand every step of the way.</p>
<p>Oh, and actually most families don’t get merit scholarships so this is not pertinent to them. And I am very willing to bet that the vast majority of those that do either realize they still have to pay their EFC or find that out when they think to ask the question, rather than assuming anything.</p>