My D is getting prepared for incoming freshman advising at University of Oklahoma. She has numerous AP classes with scores ranging from 3 to 5. I was trying to get some general advice on what to do with those credits. Should she retake STEM classes that are important for her engineering major? Should she retake any classes where she got less than a 5 on the AP class even though the university will accept lower scores? Should she retake chemistry if she did AP Chem as a high school junior and did no science as a senior?
I have no personal experience with AP classes from my high school 27 years ago. We had another system for advanced credit in college through St. Louis University. I would think that the national AP exam system is better than the regional system I had, but would like to hear feedback from students/parents on their experiences skipping or voluntarily retaking college courses based on their AP scores.
There are lots of variables that will play into your decision. If she uses AP Chem credit will she then need to take the next higher level chem class? If so, probably better not to use. Same for her math. Now if her school will make her take next level math regardless then use the AP credit.Each persons situation is different.The other non stem classes are usually good ones to use so maybe you can lighten her semester or graduate a semester early.
You are asking the right questions. I would take credit for any courses where you don’t have to take the next course, such as US History, or where you feel comfortable, such as skipping freshman comp if she got a 4-5 on AP Lang. STEM is an individual decision. I went to college in your era and tested out of 3 hours of chemistry and 5 hours of calculus. I didn’t have to take the next class for either since my math was stats so I took credit for both. If I’d needed to take the next course, I woudl have still taken the 5 hour credit for calculus because I was solid on my knowledge. I would have retaken chemistry. These are questions your daughter should be able to answer. She can talk to current students as well for their advice.
Let me first say that my kids’ high school doesn’t offer AP but they can take any AP test they want. Both kids took (or will have taken) the two AP Calc tests before graduating. They’ve also each earned a number of dual enrollment credits or college credits for classes taken at college.
Both are/will be engineering students. They took every bit of credit that would/will transfer into their universities. It’ll give them flexibility later on or even right up front.
They took a lot of college math during high school. Combined with AP test scores, they will only need to take a statistics course for their engineering degrees. There can be some school specific pitfalls for skipping from AP Calc to Calc 2, so if she intends to do that have her look at a Calc 1 final first to make sure she’s prepared for Calc 2.
One kid took a term of college chemistry in high school (and regrets not taking the second term toldyousokiddo) and started out with second term chemistry his first year of college with no ill effects. Chemistry is standard enough.
Using credits like that can give a student the flexibility they need to graduate in 4 years. However, retaking those classes can provide a GPA buffer which is important in some STEM fields of study.
She needs to talk to her advisor. I believe the way OU handles AP credit is that all AP credit is automatically applied toward class standing and then plugged into what ever requirements it meets into the the Degree Navigator program (you can find this on the Ozone portal). Credits for class standing is important because the the more total credits you have the earlier you can register starting second semester, this is true even if you already have early registration privileges. She can just retake the any classes she and her adviser decide that she needs to. She doesn’t have to make that decision before she sends her AP scores to OU.
Different departments may have different recommendations but for Meteorology they recommend that all calculus classes be completed at the same institution, this is one reason DD took Cal 3 DE at CC so she completed her calculus series before starting OU. Meteorology also has a limit of 32 AP credits that can be used toward your major and even though they give credit for AP Physics C they don’t give credit for the two associated 1 credit lab classes.
I agree with the recommendation not to skip a class that’s part of a series, that can just lead to trouble down the road. Worst-case, you find repeating the material to be an easy A and have a little less stress and more free time to spend making new friends. Best-case, you realize how different the focus is in an engineering-level college class vs high school AP classes and your brain gets expanded to approach the same problems from a different angle.
Here is the method I suggest when she has an AP score that allows exemption from a course:
a. If the course is not a prerequisite for another course that she will take, use the AP score to skip it and take a free elective in its place (possibly later). For example, if she has AP chemistry credit for OU Chemistry 1315 and 1415, but her major does not require more advanced chemistry courses than those, then it should be safe to skip them.
b. If the course is a prerequisite for another course that she will take (commonly math or physics, or chemistry for chemical engineering majors), try the college’s old final exams for that course to check your knowledge by the college’s standards. If they are easy, skip the course. If they are mostly easy, you know what you have to review before skipping the course. If they are generally difficult, retake the course.
My sons, all engineering majors, accepted all of their humanities credits. They also accepted Chemistry AP credits as that was all the chemistry they needed. That freed up time in their schedules, so two of them were able to add a minor, and they were able to take more interesting courses because their AP credits met the prerequisite requirements (for example, having the psychology AP credit allowed one of my sons to take a sophomore level psychology honors class that he loved).
As for math and physics, they took the advice of their advisors (based on my sons’ majors and AP scores) and retook the courses at the university.
Every university is different, but your student’s advisor should be armed with statistics as to whether students are served best by accepting particular AP credits or retaking the course.
Freshman year has plenty of challenges! For many students, I think it works well when some of their calculus and physics courses are a review for them, and they can then go into their upper level courses with a very strong foundation.
Worst case is wasting time and tuition in a course you already know, rather than learning something new from an extra free elective (now or later) that you can take instead. Using AP credit for advanced placement can also enable the option of graduating early, or make it easier to avoid graduating late, in some situations.
My perspective might be a little biased due to my personal experience. I took first-quarter calc at GA Tech my senior year of high school and got a B. Decided to fall back to AP calc for the rest of senior year after that.
I re-took calc at my STEM college (in the engineering program) the following year and worked really hard for another B. It wasn’t easy at all repeating the material. Maybe I wasn’t very bright But after that first semester of calc you have the second semester, and woe unto you if you didn’t master the first semester’s material. If I had taken the GA Tech credit and skipped the first semester, I would’ve been sooooo screwed!
Our S went to USCal in engineering. He was given 60 credits for all his APs, including CS, Physics and Calculus. He was still strongly encouraged to retake all those courses, which he and most of his peers DID re-take. It gave them a very solid foundation for the rest of his engineering coursework. A few kids did take a test and test out of retaking the courses.
I’d talk with the counselor at her engineering college as well as her HS for guidance.
None of us can give you the definite answers. AP credits may or may not replace classes but they can allow for earlier registration with the higher class standing (may not take effect the first year as AP credits might not be on her transcript until the completion of her first semester). Her school and departmental advisor is the source for knowing which courses to retake at her school’s level (AP versions are usually great for breadth requirements but don’t cover as much material as many college versions).
This is where freshman orientation and advising comes into play. btw- it is HER, not your, place to do the planning et al. You act as a sounding board only, she takes the lead. Her school will know which courses she should take their version of and which AP courses are adequate.
She should go ahead and apply for credits for all AP exams she will have taken. If she then takes college courses that remove those credits there is no loss. The college version may be sufficiently different they keep the AP credits. I do know that UW-Madison students often start over with first semester calculus as the AP version is insufficient for doing well in the UW second semester class. Don’t know about the AP credits as son got those as well as starting the honors math/calculus sequence there.
She should take the credits she can but also start at the beginning where her U suggests. It is all about getting the needed knowledge. Having a higher class standing later on can mean getting into a class that would fill up.
Actually, there is likely enough new material a student is not actually repeating the AP course, just using it to have a better foundation going into the course. Just as eons ago in my pre-AP day.
@ucbalumnus Just wanted to tell you that pulling up old tests, quizzes, syllabus, etc. is one of the best things I’ve learned on college confidential and worth 10 helps if I could give it. For whatever reason, I just never thought to do this. My D and I will definitely look over the Calc 1 & 2 information you provided. Thanks!!
It looks like the Chemistry 1315 and 1415 old exams are not easily findable on OU web sites (though syllabi do exist on OU web sites, and some exams may exist on third party test bank web sites). Your daughter may want to find out if the OU chemistry department can provide her some old exams or practice exams for those courses (she may want to explain that she is an incoming chemical engineering student who wants to check her knowledge before using AP chemistry credit to move to a more advanced chemistry course).
First, you need to check out the AP credit policy of the school. Second, you need to find out if there is any adverse effect by having too many credits (e.g. upperclassmen tuition rate at UMich). Third, you need to find out how useful are those credits for the intended major graduation.
My D did not retake any course that she received AP credits but move forward to the next level. However, there are students that need to gain a better foundation before the next level class, or some students want to get a higher GPA in order to maintain a merit scholarship or for medical school application.
Also, have read that with some schools, once you elect to take the AP credit and skip the course, you can’t change you mind later. You need to know what the U’s policy is on this.
Send in and let the credits fall where they do. The school will help with placement in math, physics, foreign language, etc., through placement tests and advising. D started in Calc III, and in her case would have been a waste of time to start in anything below that. But in physics even with test score to bypass the one, her and advisor decided the class was challenging enough and worthwhile to take it. She had checked the class syllabus to know what was involved, so did her research.
My son’s advisor suggested he not skip the highest level calc class and he chose to follow this advice. He’s glad he did. The material wasn’t entirely new but it went into much greater depth on concepts that needed to be mastered for subsequent math and physics classes.
But after that first semester of calc you have the second semester, and woe unto you if you didn’t master the first semester’s material. If I had taken the GA Tech credit and skipped the first semester, I would’ve been sooooo screwed!