<p>OP here. His illness was not something worthy of the disabilities office, and he probably missed less than a week or so of school. But he was certainly less than 100% for much of the semester. His GPA for the semester was a little over 3.0, but I suspect if he would have asked for a little extra time some of his Bs could have been As. That’s just not who he is, so I try to accept it. I Suspect REUs are not going to happen for him, because of his GPA (slightly under 3.0). He took almost all of his math classes early, after taking multiple advanced math classes in HS, and may only need one additional math class for his major. He will retake a couple this spring, because of his terrible semester. If he would have staggered his classes differently, or repeated some math classes from HS in college, my GUESS is he would be on the PhD track. In HS he was very motivated and took many hard classes and hedid very well on standardized tests. But over the last year he has become somewhat social, and he is learning How to balance things a little late.
But back to my original question, and why I think it may be a good idea for him to stay and get a masters. 1 - Some federal agencies (and probably other employers also) may not hire undergrads with lower that a fairly high GPA, but a graduate degree can help get you in the door. 2 - if he does well in masters classes he could consider going for a PhD, if he is still interested 3 - He can do it with no application and no test. 4 - His scholarship will offset the cost. They may even help him out by giving him a TAship or something in addition to scholarship, but I’m not at all sure about that. </p>
<p>Huh? Was his bad GPA semester “a little over 3.0”? Or “slightly under 3.0”? It is not clear what you mean by a “terrible” semester. If his “terrible” semester was around a 3.0, then it is hard to see that as being a major impediment toward PhD program admission if his other semesters were significantly better.</p>
<p>OP,</p>
<p>Is your S’s math GPA or related classes like CS much higher than his overall GPA? Is his overall GPA above a 3.0?</p>
<ol>
<li> In some majors, such as biology or math, a Master’s could be viewed as a “booby prize” signifying a PhD washout.</li>
<li> If he is pretty much done with his upper division classes right now, he will be taking graduate level classes starting this semester, which should give him the green light- or not- for pursuing a PhD. In 15 months, he will be pretty clear, I would think.</li>
<li> Great</li>
<li> Yes, that is true- little downside, but he may consider an MS in CS or some related degree.</li>
</ol>
<p>Perhaps he would consider applying for an MS in CS and a PhD in Math. By June 2016 he will know which way to go, and can select the best choice? Especially if he makes good use of this summer and the next.</p>
<p>OP, exactly which courses did he have the grades less than B in?</p>
<p>His very low GPA was less than 2.0. All other semesters he had a 3.0-3.4 GPA. Assuming he repeats a couple of the classes he didn’t do well in, his overall GPA will likely be above 3.0. His two worst grades were in math classes (He actually had an A in his 1 credit programming class). He has almost all Bs in his math classes. He actually considered a double major with CS, but decided against it. Maybe he will consider that route for a masters, but when I asked him he said he wants to continue with math. </p>
<p>Okay, again, I’d recommend talking with his advisor and pre-career counseling. Since he’s a junior, this summer would be a great time to take a job connected–or not–to his major. Based on what @1214mom relays about his grades, it doesn’t seem like a masters would do much more than add debt and put off the transition to working adult. </p>
<p>
Do you know WHICH math classes? This is important for our insight into where he thinks he is going with this. </p>
<p>See here’s the thing. Whether he’s got a BA, an MA or PhD in math… at some point he needs a plan.</p>
<p>PhD with an eye towards working in a quant hedge fund? Master’s to work at the CDC (since you mentioned the Federal government) to model pandemics and develop emergency response systems? BA and then a few years teaching math in a private high school while he gets a Master’s in Teaching? PhD to become an academic- and if so, who does he want to be studying with, what are his areas of interest (if it’s Topology or something highly theoretical, his optimal grad school choices will likely be different than if he’s interested in statistics or another applied math field).</p>
<p>These require a plan. Staying in college an extra year because it doesn’t require an application seems to me to be a huge avoidance mechanism. How hard is a grad school application for a talented kid like your son???</p>
<p>So sure- get a Master’s.</p>
<p>But don’t kid yourself. At some point (next year, two years, 7 years post dissertation) he needs a plan. Math majors are in high demand in the workforce- I’m not sure why you guys have internalized some message that his career is over due to one bad semester.</p>
<p>Has he been to career services yet? You pay for it whether he’s met with a counselor or not. Has he asked for a download of recent alums who were math majors? Has he been on the colleges webpage to see which employers are showing up in January for the summer internship fair?</p>
<p>You pay for all these resources. Why not use them before you encourage him to get his “free” Master’s degree?</p>
<p>I’m with the folks here who suggest career counseling and speaking to an advisor, and also to look into the career services office. Be forewarned: career advice from math professors can run the gamut from very helpful to being totally out of touch with reality (“You can get a Ph D and teach at a college” – umm… no …you can see my earlier posts about the bad academic job market)</p>
<p>Complementing the math with more CS courses and applied statistics - seems he already has some foundational programming courses - may be helpful in seeking employment after a B.S. I am concerned that lots of B’s in math classes is not going to garner great recommendation letters for a graduate program , and a Master’s as a “Stepping stone” towards a Ph.D. is not really advisable in this market. There are programs with MS in Applied Statistics, if he is interested. These are more professionally oriented, but the quality varies, depending on the university.</p>
<p>Speaking from my own experience, I wish I had better advice in my undergrad years about grad school and alternate career prospects. While I am now a tenured prof at a regional university, and I enjoy what I do, I do not recommend this path to anyone mostly due to the radical shifts in higher education in hiring tenure track faculty. And the PhD in math is so ultra specialized, it is very difficult to enter industry afterwards (except for folks who have PhD’s in statistics).</p>
<p>There are Master’s programs in quantitative finance which are highly marketable (Princeton’s program for example- those kids are in high demand) which usually require at least some post-BA work experience for admissions. Good reason for that- so they don’t end up becoming a hideout for math majors who didn’t know what they wanted to be when they grew up.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone. I am strongly encouraging him to seek career counseling and to utilize the resources they have for finding internships, etc. As everyone here already knows, you can lead a kid to water… Keep your fingers crossed that he actually finds his way there. He doesn’t have to decide about the masters degree yet, but your feedback is helping me work out advice I will give him. I’m hopeful that this next semester he will do much better with grades, and maybe he will pursue research. Last spring he did write a proposal for summer research, but it was not selected. He has taken multiple 400 level math classes, but I don’t know which ones he did very poorly in.</p>
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</p>
<p>The washout part is not always involuntary. </p>
<p>I’ve known of several acquaintances and a few friends who voluntarily “washed out” of their PhD programs at elite universities specifically for the purpose of getting that practically free Masters degree. Of course, they never told the department/advisers that as that would have permanently closed the door to those plans. </p>
<p>Also, the structure of Masters degrees is such some might by like as you described…others allow for both a standalone Masters and the Masters as part of one’s progress towards a PhD. </p>
Sylvan there are more part-time college instructors in the U S than full-time. And a ton of these are at community colleges, where u only need a masters usually, and the classes tend to be intro level and therefore not difficult to prepare. Many 4-year colleges also hire part-timers w/ master’s. High turnover among part-time faculty results on lots of new hires. Pay generally starts somewhere near $50/hour. So where am I wrong?
Can the Master’s be in Applied Math, Statistics, or Analytics?
@moooop, can you give us some idea of the pay per course and the hourly rate per hour worked? Being a college instructor isn’t like being a yoga instructor, where the pay per class may better reflect the hourly wage given the absence of much preparation time and grading. Increasingly part-time instructors are being asked to participate in uncompensated committee work, advising, and participation in various workshops. Add that to course prep time, grading, often paying for your own parking and the effective hourly wage is nowhere near $50.
Pay for a typical 3-credit course is around $2400. A reasonable multiplier for prep, grading, office hours, and class time is at least 3 times the number of “contact hours”. More if it is the first time prep or if you are redoing your prep, changing texts, etc.
I have been an adjunct for 15+ years. For the last 3 years I have kept track of how much time I put in for a semester’s pay. The effective rate has ranged from $10 - $18/hour.
And FWIW the fact that material is intro level does not mean that it is not difficult to prepare. That’s pretty much an insult.
Oh, please. How many colleges charge faculty for parking? How often do you hear this: “I was going to got into college teaching, but since 1% of colleges in the country don’t have free parking for faculty, I decided not to”?
Once you get the class prepared, preparation time for subsequent classes is minimal. If you have a master’s degree in math, not a lot of prep time is required to teach a low-level math course. Same with many other fields–part-timers tend to teach the basic stuff that bores the full-timers. English composition, intro to philosophy, intro to logic, basic math, U.S. History, etc. They generally aren’t called on to teach the cutting-edge stuff that is always changing and that you have to struggle to keep up with. Scantron use seems to be rampant, and they cut exam-correction time to about zero. Administrative and committee responsibilities for part-timers tend to be minimal compared to full-timers, and a lot of it IS compensated, depending on the college. Whenever I talk to people who went from part-time to full-time, they almost can’t stop complaining about all the non-teaching time wasters they are NOW involved with that they didn’t have as part-timers.
The pay rates obviously vary among colleges, with community colleges often paying the least. But even with them, pay in the vicinity of $50 per classroom hour is common.
Every university I have attended (2) or taught at (4) charges students and faculty for parking. Currently I pay $90 a month but in a less congested area I spent $100 per year. As a part-timer I would pay $6 per hour to park. However, I have not taught in small towns or suburban areas where parking is plentiful.
Be as insulting as you like. $50 per classroom hour does not translate into $50 per hour of effort.
Are you speaking from personal experience here? Lol.