<p>Don’t have him apply unless he LOVES math/sci to the point that his application essay alone can make him stand out. Otherwise, have him pursue science at a college where he can get into with his critical reading skills, etc.</p>
<p>Doing research is not a better EC than being an intern at an engineering company.</p>
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<p>I dont believe admission officers are looking for research above all else in a candidate. They are looking to see what you are doing that shows interest in an area that you are applying. So if you are applying to premed program or a combined program, have you done any work related to healthcare, spent time in a hospital related area doing anything (volunteering, shadowing, research), if you are applying for computer science, have you done any work in programming, any skills learned outside of school, if you are stating your goal as getting a Ph.D. in chemistry and going into research, have you spent any time in a lab doing research or shadowing a scientist etc.</p>
<p>Some of this usually won’t matter if you are applying to a school where 50% of the applicants might get accepted but if the schools are selective like MIT, adcoms do need a way to weed out those who have only stated goals when there are candidates who have actually started trying to work their way to their stated goals. </p>
<p>Of course adcoms may not expect the same from a candidate who has to work his/her way through high school at a local diner or grocery store to support themselves/family and have no time to pursue any ECs to support their stated goals.</p>
<p>Nephew got into MIT last year with zero research.</p>
<p>To the OP: don’t overthink things. You don’t <em>need</em> to do research. All the same, if you are inclined to, it will help to pursue activities that use your brain. </p>
<p>“Doing” research in itself is no longer novel. The key is to be engaged in it enough that it becomes a meaningful experience. </p>
<p>Also, these experiences are helpful because it may help your son know what he isn’t interested in. I know a professor who did research one summer as an undergrad, hated it, and switched to her current field and loved it. For this reason, it is important to pursue your <em>genuine</em> interests as long as you are doing something constructive with your time in general. </p>
<p>In the long run, admission to elite schools is less important than him developing his mind, solidifying his skills, and learning what he likes.</p>
<p>Besides, let’s face it – I think “doing research” is code for “well connected kid from family with disposable income.”. How do you get to labs, for example, without one’s own car or an at home parent to drive and pick up? There are 2 major labs in my neck of the woods, none of which would be accessible to a kid who uses public transportation or has to go home and watch his siblings.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl- I live about 5 miles from Rice U. Only structured program they offer to do research in one of their eng departments is offered to a school district that is 6-8 hours away from Houston. My kid sent emails asking for an opportunity to this dept and no one had the courtesy to even respond. However, since there are so many schools that they could be serving inside of Houston but chose to tie up with a school district speaks volumes about priorities.</p>
<p>[Rice</a> University Institute of Biosciences and Bioengineering : Summer High School](<a href=“http://ibb.rice.edu/Content.aspx?id=85&linkidentifier=id&itemid=85]Rice”>http://ibb.rice.edu/Content.aspx?id=85&linkidentifier=id&itemid=85)</p>
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<p>You could say that about any extracurricular activity. Ruling out anything that requires any transportation is a pretty low bar. (Music lessons, any sport that may require travel, etc.) And yes, sports travel are covered by the school, but not in off-season.</p>
<p>Any kid can get a research program by sending an email to a professor. It’s not that tough. And there are also more and more research programs at public magnet schools, schools which do not often require tuition. I knew quite a few kids who couldn’t afford top colleges have very impressive research, so income was irrelevant. There’s also a program in California that will set up any kid to do research. If you know how to use google are ask questions on CC, you can find these opportunities.</p>
<p>It does make things easier to be in the proximity of a university, although it would be possible to spend a summer somewhere doing research. It might even be possible to get paid at a university, especially if a prof’s lab is well-funded.</p>
<p>Anyway, I think it’s ridiculous to dismiss research as being the product of connections and wealth. I think you may be thinking of the 80’s.</p>
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Although of course it’s possible for a totally unconnected high schooler to get a research job at a local university, and I would encourage anybody who’s interested to send some feeler emails, my experience in my grad lab has been that “doing research” as a high schooler is code for “parents who are scientists or engineers”. Structured research programs, both at public magnet schools and at universities (e.g. RSI) are probably an exception to this. But the freshmen who come interview at my lab for undergrad research positions have great high school research experience, and they are virtually all the children of scientists.</p>
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<p>menloparkmom, Can I ask how you know so much about what MIT is looking for? Personally, I was hoping that being accepted to MIT was more about fun things, such as, fitting in, independence, being your own person, having humility, patience, attitude, maturity and possibly, being a team player etc- qualities that make people sucessful and helpful to society and fun to be around, rather than any other exceptional academic abilities that cannot be measured by SAT tests and GPAs etc. Hopefully, trying to weed out selfish little cry babies, cloned by parents to score high on tests since childhood, but who lack the ability to cope with failure, that ultimately faces all humanbeings.</p>
<p>^ I’m confused by how you worked “fitting in” and “independence” in the same sentence :P</p>
<p>I don’t really see the conflict between what you’re saying and what you quoted from menloparkmom (note her “and/or” in there). MIT wants people who go beyond just some good grades and doing well on a test. You have to show your academic capability, that’s for sure - but that doesn’t get you very far in the Admissions process. Through persevering through other activities - be it academic (math competitions, research) or sports or random activities in between, MIT looks for people doing something beyond the basic requirement of high school academics.</p>
<p>Piper, and what about the remark:
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<p>Hypersmart students that are into research AND show a passion for learning …? Give me a break.</p>
<p>HOW do I know? I personally KNOW hypersmart students who WERE accepted at MIT and some less brilliant students who weren’t, what those students were like and what they did in HS, [ and in some cases before HS] as well as students who were and weren’t accepted at Cal Tech, which is MIT’s peer in Calif-[ where my son is in grad school]
There are lots of great colleges and universities where students can experience all of the following-
“fitting in, independence, being your own person, having humility, patience, attitude, maturity and possibly, being a team player etc- qualities that make people sucessful and helpful to society and fun to be around”
But MIT wants students who will show more than those qualities. It IS academically intense at MIT, more so than just about any other U in the US[ again- you would know this if you had been doing research on colleges on this site, and elsewhere, for 7 years] and the typical “smart student” will have a very hard time keeping up. And it is a research oriented university, as opposed to a LAC or more laid back academic institution. Sorry if that disappoints you. There is no need to be snippy. Try doing some research yourself and read CC’s MIT forum accepted students posts from prior years, as I have . You’ll quickly get an idea of the type of students, and their additional accomplishments, which DO go beyond high GPA and SAT scores, that MIT offers acceptances to.</p>
<p>@perazziman - Yeah, I didn’t go back and read all of menloparkmom’s comments, I was just responding to your quoted portion. Indeed, there are many hypersmart students here who showed a passion for great learning in high school - but there are also hypersmart students here who showed a passion for art, sports, etc.</p>
<p>@menloparkmom - Basically, what I said above. I hope you can see the logical fallacy in taking your small sample size and deciding all MIT students must be this way. For one, I didn’t do much above and beyond in academics in high school - I was too busy horseback riding and flying - and as far as I know, I’m an MIT student.</p>
<p>Unless you mean the stuff you’ve said about learning and research more broadly such that it does apply to completely non-academic activities - in which case, sure.</p>
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<p>Yeah, I was frankly taken aback by perazziman’s tone. Given that this person seems to admit that they aren’t academically inclined (saying they aren’t good at math), I think his use of perjoratives to describe high-scoring high school students (“selfish crybabies”, etc.) is highly appropriate. Test scores don’t say everything, but I’m going to bet that the OP doesn’t have a good feel for how various academic qualifications translate to future technical accomplishments. </p>
<p>I’m amazed at people who seem to want to be associated with MIT, either by going themselves or having their kid get in, who seem to resent the type of people who actually go on to make contributions to academia.</p>
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<p>Research is still a lot more niche than music lessons or sports. I really wanted to do research in high school, but had a tough time finding the opportunity, and in the end wasn’t able to get anything. I was, on the other hand, easily able to participate in music, sports, and even things like math and cs contests.</p>
<p>It is quite hard to find research gigs without connections. As I have mentioned in an earlier post, proximity to one major university (there are several universities in fact that we tried, affordability of transport or needing payment for work was nt an issue either), did nt result in this easy to find research gig over a two year period.</p>
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What’s so crazy about that? MIT and Caltech are among the best universities in the country, and enough really great people apply that they have the luxury of choosing students who have a complete package. </p>
<p>And anyway, wouldn’t picking smart students who are genuinely passionate about learning be exactly what you want? By selecting students who are passionate as well as highly intelligent, MIT is indeed “trying to weed out selfish little cry babies, cloned by parents to score high on tests since childhood, but who lack the ability to cope with failure.”</p>
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<p>I don’t know which field you were looking for, but I think some fields are harder than others to land a research position. Biology is the easiest, probably because profs know that many advanced high school students have enough preparation to engage in meaningful research. And I think the engineering internship is much harder to come by for a high school student than a research position.
You have to really be special, or be <em>very</em> advanced, to be prepared to do research in chemistry, physics, math, or engineering as a high school student. </p>
<p>Still, I was never one to be so impressed with just having a research position. A semifinalist placing at Intel typical shows work ethic, affinity for science (enough to spend hours in a lab, anyway,) and some verbal ability to be able to communicate your results. All these things add to the resume’ of a strong applicant. However, most of the time, real creativity is unnecessary, though showing true ingenuity can help you gain a finalist placing.</p>