<p>My S is a rising junior, interested in studying engineering. He has signed up for: </p>
<p>AP Chemistry
AP Computer Science II
AP US History
PreAP Pre Calculus
PreAP Physics
AP Biology
AP English Language. </p>
<p>In middle school he was State recognized in the Duke University TIP program for his critical reading skills in 2008. Even though his Math scores were average (50 percentile rank), he seems more interested in science than arts and humanities. He loves reading books on mathematics, logic and philosophy. He also likes playing chess. His math scores are improving. He took the PSAT as a sophomore and got an 88 percentile rank in math. His GPA reflects this weakness. He has a 4.0 weighted average.</p>
<p>So, it seems to me, Engineering at Texas A & M would be a realistic goal. However, if he continues to demonstrate improvement, makes National Merit, 700s in SAT I & II and mostly As in the above courses, should he consider MIT as his reach school?
He enjoys chess and like most Texans, skeet shooting.</p>
<p>Middle school achievements are not really taken into consideration and, if they are mentioned, not weighted very heavily. Your S seems like a great kid and solid applicant, but I would probably tell you to have him apply to some other schools a notch or two below MIT, particularly if you can afford the OOS or private tuition, such as:</p>
<p>Duke
Northwestern
Rice
UCBerkeley
Michigan
Illinois
Georgia Tech
Wisconsin Madison
Texas Austin (in-state and great Engineering)
Purdue</p>
<p>OP, have your son prep for the real PSAT as much as he can, by doing practice SAT tests… If he can surpass the Texas NM cut off number, then he will have LOTS more options open to him when he applies to college, including U’s that offer 1/2tuition scholarships[ like USC, which has a great engineering program] to full tuition scholarships. Tip top tech schools, like MIT and CalTech are looking for hypersmart students that are into research, AND have shown a passion for learning as much as possible, as expressed in their outside EC’s.</p>
<p>menloparkmom: His school district enrolled him in a semester of private prep. for the NMSQT, based on a post PSAT test in his sophomore year. He attended two classes, mostly on my insistence, but contended, he would do better studying mathematics on his own than listening to people talk about how to take a test. So, I relented and let him drop out of the program. On the bright side, this summer he took a few timed, practice SAT tests from various study guides. He averaged around 740 (math between 720 and 770; reading between 740 and 780). So, it seems like his math skills are a lot better than last year. The NM cut off in TX is around 216. Therefore, it is possible he could make the cut. However, I do not know about the reliability of these practice tests. </p>
<p>I will say, I am really shocked at how his math abilities are developing at such a rapid rate at this stage of his life. Last year, I would have been happy if he could make a 600 on SAT math in his senior year. Like any parent, I am very worried he might be trying to bite more than he can chew at MIT. This is why I was asking if he should even think of applying here. </p>
<p>^ I don’t know if this is the case, but I know a few people that didn’t care for the memorization side of math, so they didn’t look like they were good at math until they got to high school, where it is more about figuring out problems.</p>
<p>A student has to do a lot more than have a top GPA and great SAT scores to get into MIT. Showing a strong interest in doing scientific research and /or demonstrating exceptional abilities well above those measured by SAT tests levels is something that most MIT admitted students have done.
At MIT, the focus is on doing research, first and foremost, and the pace of instruction is fast and intense. It has been described as “trying to drink water from a fire hose”, just so both you and your son know. If that is the college environment he is seeking, go for it.</p>
<p>S attended public elementary and middle schools in a mostly hispanic neighborhood (that do not usually send graduates to MIT), or put pressure on kids to get involved with or think about a career in research. It was only after TIP discovered he was gifted in critical reading (ranked 98 percentile) that we thought about getting him to a high school with some academic credentials.</p>
<p>Next summer, S is hoping to get an internship with an electirical engineering company, owned by an MIT graduate, who heard about his academic acheivements and wants to help.</p>
<p>That is very interesting. Unfortunately, I am not smart enough in mathematics to understand completely what you are saying, but I hear my S talking about the problem solving in mathematics and how he loves it. For me math was always a struggle. Also, it is nice to know there are others like him, because we were genuinely puzzled by how rapidly his math skills were developing at age 16, prior to which his math skills were quite unremarkable. Thanks for sharing.</p>
<p>I hear you menloparkmom. I had to get special permission for him to take so many AP courses, just so he could get a glimpse of what it is like drinking from the MIT fire hose… I have also shown him statistics and rankings on how A & M engineers do quite well too. I dont know what else I can do as a parent to make sure he is not applying for the wrong reasons. </p>
<p>I have shown him how petroleum engineers make the most money:</p>
<p>[Engineers[/url</a>]</p>
<p>Texas A & M has one of the best petroleum engineering programs:</p>
<p>Let me clarify. Learning math facts (multiplication tables, addition) is a big part of elementary school math education. There are some people that don’t like math during this phase of education and thus don’t excel at it, but end up distinguishing themselves when you get to word problems. Math later on has more to do with thinking than memorization. And, like the poster and MIT grad Mikalye said, once they are exposed to the thinking part of mathematics, they are willing to force themselves to the memorization part.</p>
<p>In my son’s case, I think some of it has to do with developing new mental skills, that allow him to memorize data, that helps him visualize complex problems. He was always a fast reader and learner, good at memorizing dialogues (from movies etc), but not always that good at memorizing random lists of numbers and words (such as those in the multiplication tables etc). That seems to be changing, as he is now able to memorize lists of 20 random things or more, after hearing them once. I believe it these abilities that are helping him improve on the SAT. For example, recently I asked him to memorize the atomic weight, atomic number and symbols of 25 elements on the periodic table. He looked at them for about 15 minutes and had them all down. Similarly, he can rattle off the value of pi beyond forty decimal places. The benefit of all this is not that he can memorize lists like a parrot, but that he can now hold this information in his mind and manipulate it in his head when solving complex problems.</p>
<p>I have a couple of engineering degrees but never needed to remember anything beyond pi = 3.141 since elementary school. Beyond some basic information like formulae and some required values, I have never had to memorize 40 digit numbers. OTOH, I have had to remember periodic chart elements, their weights etc as needed upto a certain number and from what I noticed, it is still the norm based on what my kids do in their classes.</p>
<p>As people mentioned, it takes a different type of person to succeed at MIT but it does nt eliminate your kid just because he is currently not pursuing research activities. He can still take those up this year or next summer. There is intense competition for an admission to MIT and in addition, it is a completely separate application since it is not part of commonapp which is additional work to ensure meeting all deadlines etc.</p>
<p>UT is higher ranked than A&M in several engineering areas.</p>
<p>As I said, there is an engineering firm owned by an MIT graduate, that has offered to give him an internship. As I understand it, the work involves computer programming, related to flow controls and process automation in the energy industry. It was explained to us that they have been looking for smart electrical and computer science engineers but are finding it difficult to recruit talent. S took AP CS I in 9th grade and will be taking AP CS II this year. </p>
<p>By the way, should S be exploring opportunities to work in research laboratories with engineering professors, at major universities? Are these kinds of opportunities usually available to bright hs kids? What other kinds of opportunities should he be exploring? </p>
<p>The only question that really matters when deciding where to apply is “Would I be happy there?” Beyond that, it is just smoke and mirrors. There seems to be this misconception that MIT is just for geniuses. Indeed, every year, I meet at the admitted students meeting at least one student who seems convinced that MIT made some dreadful error in offering them admission. I spoke at length to one applicant last March, who had received an offer of admission but felt that she would be unhappy at MIT, as she had never built a nuclear reactor, vulcanized rubber, or published in a refereed journal. I convinced her to go to CPW, and when she came back, she called me up and told me that the overwhelming majority of admitted students that she met at CPW were just like her, normal great kids, not vaguely human supergeniuses, and she accepted MIT’s offer of admission and will start there in a few weeks.</p>
<p>MIT with its student bloggers and Chris’ wonderful website does a better job than most schools of exposing the MIT student experience to would-be applicants. Read the blogs, check out the website. If MIT looks like a place that would be fun to be around, then by all means your son should apply. If it does not look like a place that he would enjoy living in, then regardless of the prestige factor, he probably does not match very well, and possibly shouldn’t apply. It really is that simple. If accepted, would you WANT to go?</p>
<p>Perhaps, I should let my son decide whether he wants to be involved with research or work at an engineering firm. Then, let MIT admissions decide whether they want him, rather than compel S to do something, just to please Admissions. This winter S was playing chess with a couple of EEs, one with a PhD from MIT and the other from Texas A & M. One of them runs a research lab at a prominent university. My S ran circles around them both on the chess board. They both like my son a lot. They speak to my S, quite freely about their research. I would think they would be very happy to help my S with research, if that is the direction he wanted to go. By the way, he also plays chess with a couple of M.D.s (and runs circles around them on the chess board too) who would be willing to help him get an internship at their clinic. So, I do not think there is a shortage of options for bright and friendly people in this world.</p>
<p>Your son is the one who should ask his chess buddies if there are any opportunities to do research. It has to come from him, and be of interest to him, since he’s the one who would have to do the work. You can only point out that highly competitive , research oriented STEM colleges such as MIT expect applicants to have participated in some sort of research or internships before they reach college.</p>
<p>Writing computer programs is not different from research. It takes a lot of analysis and thinking to write programs, especially if he will be working at a company in summer. Personally I rate programming far above lab research as a pursuit.</p>
<p>If your son is able to intellectually relate to a couple of Ph.D.s and have conversations with them, you are selling him short on his abilities at this point based on meaningless SAT scores from 7th grade.</p>