Should students be required to take AP exams?

<p>Biggest problem w/AP not following the AP curriculum is that many classes have a dual or triple designation, ie, College Now (community college credit), AP, and even IB. Which curriculum do they follow? Since, according to the school district testing guru, 2/3 of our students do College Now, it is obvious why kids don't take the AP exam. Most teachers teach to College Now. Some even admit it to parents at back to school night!! </p>

<p>Now you can see why I have been on the schools case. My kid enrolled in AP classes for the AP curriculum. Either teach it or don't call it AP, call it what it really is, an honors class that you can get community college credit for if you pay the CC.</p>

<p>Okay, I am off my soapbox.....</p>

<p>One thing to add to the list of why one might want to take the AP even if your college won't give credit is there is the possibility that you might transfer to another college that will give credit, or in my case I actually ended up getting some credit in a roundabout way in grad school.</p>

<p>Personally I think keeping kids and teachers honest is important enough to require taking the test. It's required in our school and kids do very well on the tests.</p>

<p>My kids' high school pays for all AP exams. The test is also required. The reasoning is - if the school district is paying for you to take the exam then you better take it. For the kids there is no reason NOT to take it. I don't think a kid has missed an exam in two years and last year they gave about 150 exams.
This is not an elite high school but just a smallish public where most of the kids who go to a 4 year college attend a state school.
Over the past 5-6 years since this was instituted number of kids taking AP courses has skyrocketed and the number of kids passing the exams has increased as well.</p>

<p>The worst thing about the AP tests is that it is right in the middle of playoffs for spring sport athletes and the kids still must take the final exam in the course.</p>

<p>In our public high school, AP exams are not required but they are encouraged. Parents pay the full cost of each test (and unlike a previous poster, I was surprised in the spring to find out that I had to pay $83 for 2 physics tests!). The school does weight AP courses higher than Honors level. I have never (and neither have my kids) heard of students taking the AP level course without having the ability or prerequisites, and thereby holding back the class. I do not think taking the test should be a requirement and I also do not think that school districts should pay for everyone's AP test fee. That almost equates to paying for college credits.</p>

<p>Our public HS does not weight any classes. It also does not <em>require</em> that students take the AP exams. Some teachers virtually require it or encourage it, some do not.</p>

<p>My S took a total of 8 AP exams, 5 his senior year. Although normally parents pay for them, and we paid for the earlier three, the school paid for his 5 exams this spring. All I had to do was tell the GT coordinator that it was hard for us to afford the $400+.</p>

<p>To me, there are several reasons why it is a good thing for the kids to take the tests. Firstly, it provides the school with a reality check on the content and teaching of the class. Secondly, it provides the kids with a reality check on their mastery of the work (although this is not perfect, of course). Lastly, I think it motivates the kids to take the class seriously, and work at mastering the material and the methods of the discipline, in so far as the test reflects them. (Working with multiple original sources in history, for example.) Getting "credit" in college is the last reason to take them, IMHO, because students should take more college classes not fewer if at all possible. Still, it is nice to have a few credits in your back pocket just in case.</p>

<p>I think that that "top high schools" list is completely bogus, especially since it doesn't take into account how the kids actually DO on the tests.</p>

<p>I think that students should definitely NOT be required to take AP exams.</p>

<p>Many years ago, when I was a 12th grader, I signed up for AP Biology and AP English. Halfway through the year, the AP English teacher left to go to graduate school and was replaced by someone with no experience in teaching the course. About a month later, there was a fire in the science wing that destroyed most of the course materials for AP Biology. I didn't take either test because, in my opinion, I hadn't really completed either course. (And in the case of Biology, the science department actually advised all of the students not to take the test because we hadn't been exposed to the full AP curriculum.) </p>

<p>Of course, not taking the tests didn't matter to me in terms of college admissions because I was a senior. But what if I had been a junior? I would have preferred to be able to explain on my applications that I did not take the AP tests because of the circumstances I mentioned (or to ask my guidance counselor to do so), rather than taking them and getting poor scores because the full curriculum hadn't been taught in either instance.</p>

<p>Stuff happens. Sometimes that stuff makes taking an AP test unwise.</p>

<p>Whether or not high schools should make taking AP exams mandatory, there is a good reason why students should take them for college admissions purposes (leaving aside issues that surface after matriculation, i.e., getting college credit/upper-level course placement.) Although AP exams are not required for entrance to college, selective colleges expect a student who enrolls in an AP course to take the corresponding AP exam and self-report the score. Not reporting a score sends a message that the student scored poorly.</p>

<p>AP tests are an interesting topic!</p>

<p>On a related point, I was just at back-to-school night for my senior and asked about seniors taking the AP exam w/son's 2 AP teachers (AP Lit & Comp and AP Calc). I've heard (on college tours) that a student who is heading for, say, a math-related major might not want to test out of college freshman English via his AP Eng test credits. The (student) tour guide explained that then the college freshman will just be bumped up to a higher level Eng, and if writing is not the student's strength and they still have to take a certain number of writing courses, it just makes it harder for them in college.</p>

<p>Additionally, I've also heard (at colleges) that if a student is in a math oriented major and takes, say, AP Cal in HS, they might still want to take it in fresh year of college--just so they are not thrown into a more advanced level math course w/out the substantive, true-college level calc as a background. Son's AP Calc teacher verified this, saying that some colleges, when offering 'calculus' are actually offering calculus 1 & 2. So a student who took the AP Calc test & opted out of 1st year calc could be doing himself a disservice. He said it depends what college you go to. I know some colleges require students to take freshman calc so students learn it 'their way.'</p>

<p>I talked to a few parents of seniors that evening--the conclusion seemed to be --- while a good grade on the AP class in the spring won't help w/college admission (decisions already made) and it might not be a good choice for the student to opt out of that class in college -- it probably couldn't hurt to take the test. If they get to college & it looks like it would be a good decision to opt out of the class they took in HS, then they've got the option.</p>

<p>Paying for the AP exam - as a parent I am blessed that our school district pays for the tests. Probably 3/4 of all the kids who took AP tests would not have taken them if the district did not pay. The cost is justified easliy - our public school spends a tremendous amount of money for kids in special education. There is some pressure by parents for the district to spend some money on the gifted (or just plain bright and motivated) students. This is one way.</p>

<p>AP Eng - 3 of my kids took and passed the AP Eng tests. All three were put into a higher level of English and have done fine.</p>

<p>As for AP Calc - I agree with you son's math teacher. Many colleges place students in the highest level of math they had in high school.
There is still a great benefit for kids to take AP calc who will take calc in college. Mastery is everything and there is no harm in retaking calculus. Many schools will require a placement or validation test in addition to a high AP test score to validate Calculus.</p>

<p>JustAMomof4--I agree, mastery is everything. Son re-took precalculus in a summer course just to be extra-prepared for calc this year (he hadn't paid attention or done any work in the precalc, 2 years ago). It was a fine experience--he tutored some of the college students in the precalc class and hopefully reinforced his own mastery.</p>

<p>Having skimmed through courses myself in HS, and felt the deficit later, I'm all for son re-taking anything that's necessary.</p>

<p>
[quote]
If a kid doesn't love math & science, but knows he needs credits in those disciplines for college core requirements, what's wrong with getting them out of the way in high school? This can free up plenty of room for courses that he'd enjoy simply for his love of the subject. APs in that example prove he can handle the college level work while allowing him to study his true passion in greater depth. I think that's a good thing.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sure is, but that choice already exists. What you want to do is take the choice away from others who aren't trying to skip ahead, or took the courses purely to learn, or just plain don't need/want the credit or don't have the money. </p>

<p>To me, the test is separate from the class. You get the weighting for attacking the harder subject. If you aren't up to it, it shows in your grade--thus the weighting doesn't help you.</p>

<p>In our town, few students could affford those fees. Most APs are taken in senior year, too late for college applications. The school my S applied to didn't ask for AP's as part of the app, anyway. Of the 6 he ended up taking, he took three tests. He skipped Comp AB because he already had credit from Comp A, and his college only gave credit for one. He skipped Calc because he probably was going to retake anyway (plus his college gave one class credit for an A, which he had). He skipped physics because it was poorly taught, and also already knew he was going to start at intro level if he took it.</p>

<p>All those decisions were made for logical reasons, and did not change the amount of work he put into taking those classes. To pay for information that wasn't helpful to him didn't make sense.</p>

<p>They are not mandatory at my children's public high school Our school does not "weight" GPA...everyone - advance classes or regular classes - is on a straight 4.0 scale. Parents pay for the AP tests - the school does not. So, in this case, I agree with the school in that the "test" is not mandatory.</p>

<p>At our public school AP grades are not weighted, and the tests are optional (students have to pay all the fees). I think that if the tests are mandatory, the fees should be covered by the school.
The grade given for the course should reflect student's performance in class. Most seniors know which college they will be attending by the time they are taking AP tests. If their prospective college does not give AP credit for it, there is no reason for the family to spend $70/test. If the school wants the students to take the test for its own evaluation purposes (which is a valid reason to require testing), the school should pay for it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
To me, the test is separate from the class. You get the weighting for attacking the harder subject. If you aren't up to it, it shows in your grade--thus the weighting doesn't help you.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree - I don't get these schools who don't weight the class if you don't take the exam.</p>

<p>^HS rankings are based solely on % of students taking AP exams (I think it does not even matter what scores they get...).</p>

<p>In our high school (public) you must be approved to take an AP class. That is, your grades are reviewed and if they are high enough, you are given approval to take the class. This eliminates "just anybody" taking an AP class for the weighted average. This school year the school mandated that if you take an honors level course you must take the subject SAT. Why should my daughter, who is a senior, have to take the subject SAT in May when by then, she will have already been accepted to her schools?</p>

<p>Students have to take too many tests. To me, the point of the AP test is to be able to obtain credit for college level courses. That should be a voluntary decision by the student and not a mandate.</p>

<p>I took all my AP exams except for Calculus AB because a) we had an absolutely horrible teacher who didn't adequately prepare us at all; b) I'm not that great at math; c) I wasn't paying $82 or whatever it costs just to get a 1.</p>

<p>Not mandatory at our school. Because parents pay, and I don't know of any institutional funds available to help those with lower income, requiring that everyone who takes the class to take the test would mean fewer minority kids in AP classes--fewer than the very few that are in there now.</p>

<p>
[quote]
^HS rankings are based solely on % of students taking AP exams (I think it does not even matter what scores they get...).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There is a whole world of high schools out there where, believe me, rankings based on AP exam taking are a whole 'nother universe. There is a lot I liked about our HS, and my kids got where they wanted to go from attending it, but I gotta tell ya, no one's looking at HS rankings around here.</p>

<p>absolutely not camp here, too. Don't forget that some of the popular colleges on cc don't even offer credit for some of the exams, such as Enviro or Gov or Human Ecology.</p>