Should Tufts be Ranked Higher?

No, Rice does have a new undergrad business major. Vandy only has a minor

We mostly agree. Tufts is suffering a bit for those reasons, but is pretty much great all around. I think Tufts and NYU hang together with Wake a hair down. Of course - based on nothing other than personal perceptions, which are truly just as important these days as the criteria used for the rankings being discussed.

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Interesting
 did not let you apply for undergraduate business on this year’s application

sorry - wrong person

I must need to brush up.

Rice University will begin offering an undergraduate major in business starting fall 2021. Currently, Rice undergraduate students only have options for a minor in business or entrepreneurship.Mar 1, 2021

Seriously, I think we were discussing opportunities coming out of Tufts and other comparable colleges. Tell me if I missed something.

If you’re transferring into junior year, you’re not eligible I think. I think Rice since it’s such a new program may not have the same opportunities as schools with established business schools like NYU, WashU, Emory and the like. I ended up skipping the Rice app because I liked Goizeuta a lot and would choose it over Rice.

of course the Emory issue is you can’t apply in directly.

sorry, my comment was meant for you. not sure why I am confusing you and @honestlyidek

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Agree that the UC schools deserve more scrutiny regarding the number of students per class.

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While Rice’s undergrad Business major is new, it’s Business School is not new. The Jones School of Business has been around for almost 50 years and is well regarded. Like a number of Ivies it was only a graduate school until now. I don’t think that companies will have any reservations about interviewing business majors from Rice.

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That makes sense. Again, for me, it was personal preference based on curriculum

Living on the West Coast, you run into a lot more UC grads than Georgia Tech or Rochester grads. I think perspective on this really varies by geography.

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This is a rediculous question. Go to the school that you love and loves you back. Rankings? Seriously?

USNWR does look at graduation rate, but doesn’t really focus on outcomes. The highest weighted categories in their rankings formula is below:

20.1% – Average 6-Year Graduate Rate (17.6% overall, 2.5% Pell)
20% – 1=Marginal to 5=Distinguished Survey
10% – Financial Resources Per Student
8% – Graduation Rate Performance
8% – Class Size
7% – Faculty Compensation

Graduation rate is largely a function of admitting academically capable students, having good FA such that students do not drop out for financial reasons, and having few students who pursue programs that delay graduation like extensive co-ops. At the higher end of the rankings, all the schools admit academically capable students, so having good FA becomes important, which is tied to endowment. Financial resources per student, class size, and faculty compensation are also well correlated with endowment. The “marginal” / “distinguished” survey may be less directly tied to endowment, but I’m sure there is an indirect feedback effect. Colleges that are ranked well in USNWR are more likely to be thought of as “distinguished” among persons who choose to fill out the USNWR survey.

Regarding NYU in particular, NYU is ranked higher than would be expected based on endowment. It’s endowment per student is half of Tufts, yet they have the same ranking. NYU has a lower graduation rate, as predicted by their endowment and resulting poorer FA. NYU also does worse in financial resources per student and class size. NYU does do a little better than Tufts in the marginal/distinguished survey, but I wouldn’t expect it to be enough to make up for the graduation rate. Surprisingly where NYU shows the more stark advantage over Tufts is in faculty salary, which is weighted at 7%. NYU professors have a much higher average salary than Tufts.

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Personally I see Tufts as elite. NYU not close. The business school is beloved by Wall Street however. Tufts is more academic. Not sure why they measure faculty salaries. Manhattan is far more expensive than the Boston suburbs. I’m sure their salaries are higher than University if Nebraska too. They should control for cost of living index.

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Note that U.S. News states that “faculty salary figures were adjusted for regional price differences.”

I agree
Tufts should be ranked much higher.

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In the most recent year I saw online, NYU professors averaged a ~40% higher salary than Tufts, which would be more than compensate for a regional price adjustment.

A problem is lack of clear definitions in what you are measuring or should be measuring in the ranking. Without such a definition, you can say any college should be ranked higher/lower. It’s just a matter of what fits with your preconceived beliefs, with no external verification.

For example, ESPN has a list of college football rankings at 2023 College Football Rankings - ESPN . The rankings are clearly intended to rank the ability to win football games. The rankings get refined over the season based on how well the teams do in their games. There is external verification of accuracy based on how the football teams do in games. If I were to say Tufts should be ranked among the top 20 on the list, it would be obvious I was incorrect since Tufts does not have a history of winning against any teams that are on the same level as the top 20 on the list (and plays in a different division). However, USNWR rankings are different.

USNWR has a list called “Best National Universities”. It’s not clear what “best” means in this context. That’s not defined. The ranking is calculated based on 20.1% graduation rate, 20% marginal/distinguished survey, 10% financial resources, 7% faculty compensation
 as listed above. I can’t imagine that this group of weightings would actually measure what college is “best” how ever you want to define “best.” Instead I expect the weightings were more selected to give an output that fits a pre-conceived notion of what colleges are “best” (HYPSM should be on top), so the rankings look right. There is also no external verification, so no way to confirm whether the rankings are accurate or far off.

If I were to say Tufts should be ranked in the top 20 on a list of “best colleges”, nobody could prove me correct or incorrect since I am not defining what “best” means or how it is measured. Maybe I mean best chance for a particular kid who is interested in medicine to be accepted to med school. Maybe I mean best at offering a high level of wide variety of math/science/engineering courses that are taught by outstanding professors. Maybe I mean best chance of making personal and lifelong connections that change lives. However, if I were to say Tufts should be ranked in the top 20 under USNWR’s methodology, that is more clearly incorrect. USNWR didn’t making an addition error when adding up the numbers (I assume), and if you add up the listed weights, Tufts does not fall in the top 20. However, the weights USNWR uses are completely arbitrary and do not resemble what actually makes a college “best.” In short, I’d suggest ignoring the rankings and focusing on what criteria is important to you in a college.

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So obviously as you pointed out the FA has an impact on graduation rate which in turn impacts outcomes. I was also looking at the 5% graduate indebtedness as well which NYU would definitely have a high rate of. NYU is a business through and through.