<p>Based on PSAT and SAT scores, son#3 has been getting mail from all the Ivies. Given their new financial aid stance, those could be affordable. I was thinking about having him look at them and see if he sees himself there, and then doing the REEEEEEAAAACH thing if he did...
Stats:
MVW: 770/700/660 (highest and in the same sitting)
10 AP classes. Other courses mostly honors. Unweighted GPA just over 3.5, weighted somewhere in the 4.3-4.4 range, but that, of course, depends on who is doing the weighting...</p>
<p>EC's:
Wrestling, 4 years (not a star)
NHS
French Club
National French Honor Society
Academic Team
Broadcast Media (Studio and package team for show that airs weekly on our local Fox affiliate)
Eagle Scout candidate (will make Eagle, but maybe not before Apps get sent)</p>
<p>So, knowing that it would be a real reach, if he saw a fit at one of the Ivy League schools, should we go for it?</p>
<p>Why not the only thing you have to lose is the application fee. I didn't do so well on my SATs, but I have a 3.6 gpa and my grades are high, plus I did a lot of outside work. i.e. exchange student and volunteer work. Right now I'm in Cornell and I couldn't be happier. So, I say give it a shot.</p>
<p>Sure you can 'bother' -- you won't get in if you don't apply. My niece had considerably higher scores and higher grades than your son (but much weaker ECs) and applied to Stanford and Harvard, among others. She didn't get into either, but did get into all her other top schools. She says she doesn't regret trying for S and H. She enjoyed touring S and H campuses and giving them both a lot of thought while knowing they're a reach for everyone. Applying to schools is a learning experience like any other, an experience that includes both excitement of getting in, and learning to deal with the occasional rejection.</p>
<p>Is there anything about these schools which is particularly desirable for your son? I mean these are only 8 or 9 schools out of a universe of 1,600 and may not offer either the best academic quality nor the best quality of life given what your son may be looking for.</p>
<p>Under those circumstances, you may be setting him up for disappointments for something that is neither necessary nor desirable. So the first question is not whether he might get in, or whether he should apply, but whether these are among the schools he'd like to attend.</p>
<p>I think mini has it right :D If S is happy to go to an ivy, then go for it! It might sound silly but some people would rather not go to competitive schools or they find another school which they find is a good match.</p>
<p>My D. had 4.0 uw, top of her class, we did not bother to apply to Harvard and Prinston who mailed us their invitation to apply. Prinston accepted about 17% of VALEDICTORIANs last year. You should do whatever you feel, we just decided to skip all frustration and in addition D. did not care too much to go out of state anyway.</p>
<p>The transcript is typically the first thing admissions officers look at. Unless your son's high school has serious grade deflation and his 3.5 gives him a very high class rank, I don't think he should apply unless he's particularly excited about a particular Ivy. He's going to get into some great schools but I see Ivies as a "reach too far" unless (and probably even if) his GPA is mitigated by being a first generation college student, attending a feeder school where Ivies dig deeper into a class, etc.</p>
<p>Do not underestimate the importance of the application itself - the essays and just the general approach of presenting himself. If he can find a distinctive voice, he may hit. Good luck!</p>
<p>Is he even interested may be the big question?</p>
<p>my sons had the stats and some mail but had very little interest in anything IVY. A caveat though is that they are engineers and had no interest in living in the East so the IVY title had little appeal.</p>
<p>Actually, although he is very talented in math, and a very visual thinker, he is only 65% sure he wants to go the techy route. I was looking for a smaller school with excellent programs, that would be affordable. Clearly some of these schools with big endowments qualify. Son IS excited when he gets mail from a "name" school. He certainly hasn't been someone whose school career and choices were based on what would get him into Harvard. His brothers are both at state U's, and that's where he has seen himself applying. I'd be happier, I think, if he found a great fit somewhere smaller.</p>
<p>I've told him to look into these schools - go to their websites and read up on them. I've told him that any of them would be a reach, but if he decides he wants to apply, and is willing to put serious effort into his application, we'd pay the application fees and make it happen financially if he were accepted.</p>
<p>I KNOW there are other great schools out there. But many of them are not able to be as generous as the Ivy schools and their ilk.</p>
<p>To answer another question - no we are not URM, not first generation - we're talking middle-class suburban white kid - no hooks.</p>
<p>Do you know where his class rank puts him or the track record for kids like him at school? I agree with mini, the real question is which schools are good fits for him. I'd say based on what you've present they Ivy's look pretty reachy, but with terrific recommendations or a terrific essay, you never know.</p>
<p>I think that to get into an Ivy, an unhooked applicant really needs to be at or very close to the very top of his high school class academically to get accepted. Without another hook, I would not expect a kid with a 3.5 GPA to be competitive (unless, as others have noted, the high school is unusually tough on grading standards). </p>
<p>A "hook" doesn't have to be something innate, like URM or legacy status -- a student can create their own hook by something they have done or the way they present themselves in an application -- but there needs to be something that stands out in the application and gives the ad com a reason to take a particular applicant.</p>
<p>I echo what everyone says about whether he has a passion for going to one Ivy or another. Though of course it's a thrill to be accepted the most important thing to find is a school that your child really would love to go to--where the campus, academics and students really seem to be "their kind of people." This can be a match, safety or reach school. It's hard not to get caught up in the statistics, but there are hundreds of colleges out there, and many that will suit your son perfectly regardless of their acceptance stats. </p>
<p>Congrats on your son's terrific scores, though, and have fun narrowing down the choices!</p>
<p>If the ivies or any school interests your son, of course he should consider it. Be aware, however, that it is ever, ever so easy to get excited over the name schools. Where it takes work and research if finding schools that you do not know and finding those that fit your interests, and that you like.</p>