Should we pay more for direct entry nursing school? Worried about finances.

Parents Forum
1

DD got into Case Western’s direct entry nursing school with a decent scholarship. After you deduct the scholarship, we are left with around 35K per year to pay/finance. DD will take out the max in sub/unsub loans, which leaves us parents with around 26-28K to pay/finance per year. This is a lot more than we were planning to spend or have saved for. We do not like the idea of DD or us going into a mountain of debt, but wonder if attending Case may be the better choice and worth the sacrifice in the end. Ive listed her acceptances below and could use some advice. Unfortunately, our top tier state school, does not have a nursing program at all, so that was not an option.

CWRU–top nursing program, Direct Entry (which is a huge plus factor), clinicals start freshman year, which will make dd feel a part of nursing, rather than just the academics. She likes the urban feel of the campus and it’s a good academic/social fit (although she will have to work even harder here to keep a good gpa) DD has top SAT scores, good GPA, but slacks at times.–About 35K per year.

She also got into:
3rd Tier State School—Affordable, Not direct entry, good nursing program, party school and not a great academic or social fit. DD did not like the rural campus and is turned off by the student body. She feels she may get caught up in the social scene there, which would take her away from her academics. Around 14K per year.

Medium Size Regional State School-- Not direct entry, decent nursing program, low admittance into upper division nursing school–we are worried about this, because they get about 150 apps for about 50 open spots. She does like the school though and it’s close to home. About 20K a year.

Good OOS State School–Not direct entry, good nursing program, accepts about 200 out of 350 apps to upper division. She really liked this school and it’s a second choice, but still going to be expensive since its OOS. About 25-28K, depending on merit aid, which we have yet to see.

2

Personally I believe direct entry is absolutely critical. My daughter loved one school but once we understood what non direct entry meant it became a non starter. Without direct entry the pressure is on full force. And their has to be a " plan b" for what they do if they don’t get in. Penn seemed nice, but all alumni/ae I know in real life have overemphasized how hard it is to get in, again with the chip-on-shoulder-we’re-really-an-ivy thing. Your daughter seems like it would be disastrous to have to deal with the competitive admissions process at these schools. Direct entry is something I think is worth paying for.

3

Can you find any other school, some OOS school with direct entry? I agree that direct entry is very important. But so is cost. Is there ANYTHING out there other than Case that has such a program? Check UBuffalos, for example. There must be some other schools with a lower sticker price that has direct entry.

Check out this list: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/nursing-major/859704-master-list-of-direct-entry-nursing-programs.html

Also, what are your DD’s stats? A school like Temple has some great merit awards for those who qualify. Don’t know the time constraints for getting their auto merit. I would start looking for other options ASAP.

4

Hi, if it comes down to
Case vs The 2 State Colleges ( Pre-Nursing )
do you know if the Nursing Programs at the State Colleges offer " Guaranteed Admissions " to incoming high school students ? Call them or take a look at their website. This will make a big difference. If they do, there is usually a separate application form to fill out & with very limited seats.

Guaranteed Admissions = need to maintain a certain college GPA, a nursing spot is saved for you, no need to compete / apply later.

If they do not offer this, find out the admitted students college GPA to determine how competitve it is to get in.

5

Have you looked at Saint Louis University? They have a great nursing program and I know they have some good scholarship grants.

6

What are her stats and would she consider a Christian school? (A relative of mine recently graduated from Anderson University BSN program in Indiana. She seemed to get excellent training/opportunities at this college and got a great job after graduation.) Score/GPA-based scholarships are very generous and will probably take the cost down to 21-23K for your D depending on her stats. Minimal test score requirements for entry. Progress (3.0) requirement to stay in the program.

7

FlowerMom, there is no guaranteed admissions at either of the state schools. The avg. gpa at both schools are about a 3.6+ for the students that got in. DD is a good student, but it still makes me nervous–what would she do if she didn’t get in–a whole other major, put it off for another semester and reapply? It’s stressful to think about.

We live down south, so I don’t know a ton about the schools up north (except for the brand name schools). SAT was a 1530 (CR+M) and she qualifies for merit based on that, but gpa was on the lower side 3.25UW/4.0W, excellent EC’s, rigorous schedule all of HS…but the gpa probably excludes her from places like Penn. She wants a quality program that is not new to nursing.

IowaParent15: I will check out St. Louis U, thanks for the recommendation.

8

I would go for guaranteed admissions because I’ve seen too many times over many years how kids who were intending to get into a program locked out because of a slight miss in gpa or the program gets oversubscribed, when had they been from the get go, it would not have been any issue making that next step. Not just in nursing but in any number of disciplines where one has to apply to get into a program.

9

I would also advise going with direct entry. Here in Pennsylvania there are many direct entry programs at both public and private schools. Your daughter could probably get good merit at many of the private schools, though I don’t know if it would be more than at CWRU. York College has both merit scholarships and relatively low tuition for a private school. You could check out individual programs, then call the admissions offices to find out if there are still openings for nursing. Since nursing is currently a popular major, available places in nursing programs tend to fill up early.

10

How about Florida State University or Clemson? They both have direct entry programs for nursing.

11

fwiw, with that SAT score, she would qualify for 15K (highest scholarship) at Anderson (Indiana) in spite of lower GPA

12

How about Florida State University or Clemson? They both have direct entry programs for nursing.

Clemson was a top choice at first, but then she didn’t apply because she was told her gpa would be too low, as they only look at UW and don’t take extracurriculars into account at all.

13

Iowa would have been a great choice. It’s a guaranteed admission program and they look at weighted OR unweighted ( need 3.8) you qualify for instate after staying one summer. Very reasonably priced. Great nursing school. It may be too late. I’d call

14

I’d apply to Clemson anyway and see what happens. Her SAT may pull her through. What is her class ranking?

15

What can you pay? Nurses make a decent wage, but if your daughter is taking out the full amount of direct loan already and then will have private loans on top of that amount? Case is not worth the price. She will not come out of school with far too much debt to comfortably pay back and enjoy any sort of life. And what if she changes her mind about her major? (I know, students attracted to nursing are pretty set, but some do self-select out).

I have a student in a program that was not direct entry. She didn’t have the equivalent of a 1530 on any kind of a test. Ever. Students do get spots in non direct entry programs. I’d think with that kind of an SAT, the ability is certainly there to be a top candidate.

Direct Entry is the best way to go, but in this case the benefits certainly do not outweigh the costs.

Iowa is not a great deal for OOS students. Here are the residency requirements from the office of the registrar:

• Live and work in Iowa, supporting yourself for the 12 consecutive months (a full year) immediately prior to your intended enrollment as a Resident.

• A month after arriving in Iowa, obtain your own Iowa documents: driver’s license, voter registration and register your vehicles (if any) in Iowa.

• Enroll no more than half-time. For an undergraduate:

Maximum 6 s.h. during Fall,
Max. 6 s.h. during Spring,
Max. 4 s.h. during Summer.
Graduate students are limited to no more than 5sh (Fall), 5 sh (Spring) and 4 sh (Summer).

• Be sure that Iowa taxes are withheld from your pay and begin filing your own annual Iowa resident income tax returns. [Using an Iowa-based tax preparer is strongly recommended! Watch for the Tippie College of Business VITA group for free tax preparation help.]

• Cease being claimed as a dependent by your parents (or anyone else) on tax returns in any other state.

Mistakes that will Disqualify You

Common mistakes resulting in Denial of resident status include:

  • Working in another state (for example, returning to your former state in mid-December and resuming your old job during the holiday season).
  • Excessive absences or not being able to prove that you were living and working in Iowa for the entire 12 consecutive months. (You may visit family or friends for a long weekend or a week…certainly not multiple weeks!)
  • Poor (or no) documentation: no lease because you were “couch-surfing,” no rent checks or utility bills because you were “living with a friend/relative,” no verifiable employment during Summer or Winter breaks, etc.
  • Excessive enrollment during the 12 consecutive months necessary to qualify.

They also don’t have guaranteed admission. Some students get direct entry spots. The others are competitive. The competitive program is 9 semesters, so not only don’t you get in-state tuition after a summer, you go longer than 4 years.

16

I have a feeling she wouldn’t have wanted to go to Iowa anyway. Just saw we missed Clemson’s deadline and honestly, she would have gotten very little merit aid there so it may have ended up just as costly as Case, if she did get in.

I crunched a few numbers and it looks like she would come out with about 27K in debt (maxing out all sub/unsub loans), we would come out with 64K in Parent PLUS loans and/or private loans. We could pay for about 40K total out of pocket. 27K may not be to much for her to handle on a nurses salary–I don’t know. Does that seem reasonable? But, 64K for us is a lot. We are trying to look for small scholarships, as well, but they all seem so competitive and unlikely, but we will try anyway. These choices are so hard to make sometimes. What we thought we knew, what we thought we would do is now not so easy when the choices are laid out in front of you. We all just want whats best for our child. She really wants to go to Case. I just hope it’s worth the sacrifice. If she does decide to change her major I would have her transfer elsewhere. The consensus on here seems to be that direct entry is the way to go.

17

I would also go with direct entry for nursing. I have several family members that are in nursing and several of them had problems with the non-DE programs. In particular, my mother - who has been an LPN for over 10 years - was rejected from a non-DE upper-level nursing program because of GPA issues (her GPA was actually solid, like around a 3.2-3.3, but it wasn’t high enough to compete with the other top students in the class with the really high GPAs). Nursing programs are super competitive because of faculty shortages.

OOS publics might have DE programs, but you’d probably still run into the money problem unless you were offered substantial merit aid. FSU’s CoA is about $35K for OOS students, and Clemson is about $42K.

Not only that, though, but I feel like a top nursing program will also expose her to the variety of careers and options within nursing. Many public programs - while excellent, and producing excellent nurses - are focused primarily on supplying floor med/surg nurses to hospitals. At a place like Case Western, the emphasis may include advancement and nurse leadership roles, alternative nursing careers like nurse epidemiologist or consulting, and research and teaching.

18

The 27K in direct loans is would be manageable for most college graduates. Your daughter’s payment would be around $300 a month, and on a nursing salary, she could swing it. 64K, however, is way too much for you, even in the best of circumstances. If you are close to retirement or have more children to educate, it moves from “too much” to “disastrous”. There’s almost no way, short of your death, to discharge a parent loan, and the fact that they have some protections make them a much better deal than most privates.

Honestly, I don’t know if what my 18 year old wanted and the opinions of a lot of strangers on the internet could convince me to take on that kind of debt. Non-direct entry programs aren’t evil. You have a smart kid. Why do you think she couldn’t make the cut?

Also, with nursing, you can look at many colleges. What matters is the NCLEX pass rate. There may be many smaller schools, perhaps with regional rankings instead of national, that have very good pass rates and would give your daughter merit aid. Try some Catholic colleges. Many of them started as women’s colleges and specialize in the helping professions–teaching, nursing, social work. It’s not the same experience as Case, but what really matters? Becoming a nurse or having 4 years of the dream college experience?

I’m going to suggest your post this on the fin aid board. You’re going to get a very different set of answers than you did in the Parent Forum.

19

one more thing to consider :
what college GPA is required to keep the merit from Case? 3.0 ? 3.25? 3.5 ?
can she keep that GPA every semester ?

I don’t know anything about Case but at some colleges, it is not easy to get all As so think about how " easy or hard" to maintain the GPA needed to keep the merit all 4 years. My D is in Nursing at our state flagship & some classes can be difficult.

20

There’s a bit of a disconnect between her SAT and GPA. I’d be concerned about slacking off, and nursing programs can have some very cut and dried consequences for not making the necessary grades. That’s a lot of debt for you to take on if she doesn’t finish.