<p>My daughter was accepted into the School of Nursing at Seton Hall University. She was wait listed at two other Direct Nursing Schools (meaning you go directly into the nursing program not just admitted to the college then have to apply to the nursing program after 2 yrs.)
She really wants to attend a nursing school where she can go for four years and graduate with her BS in Nursing. </p>
<p>Her financial aid package is this:</p>
<p>SHU Need-based Grant $6000
Federal Pell Grant $5550
Direct Stafford Loan $3500
Direct Stafford Unsub $2000</p>
<p>That leaves us a cost of $29, 575. a year. Ouch! We will not be able to co-sign for a loan for her and her biological father refuses to co-sign. We do have an option of applying for Special Circumstances but I am not sure how much that will help, and now that we are both employed again she may not get that next year. We also have an older daughter entering her Junior year at University of San Francisco school of Nursing that we have to help. </p>
<p>I am so confused as to what to do. Do we have her go to a CC and forget about nursing? Does she do her pre-nursing at a CC and hope that she will get into one of the highly impacted nursing programs at a state school? Many who have a 4.0 don't even get in to those schools. Or should she get her 4 year degree in Health Science and then get her Masters in nursing?
I feel terrible for not having her apply to more schools but time and money made that difficult. She has worked her butt off for good grades and is an all around great kid. What can I do to help her fulfill her dream?</p>
<p>Many CCs offer an ADN (associate’s degree in nursing). Where I live, it’s a two year program, but it has a waiting list. Students can take their bio and other courses during that time, but then it ends up as 3 years. It’s still way cheaper. The student can take boards, (the same boards the BSNs take) and if her goal is to provide patient care, she can get exactly the same job as a BSN when she’s through. </p>
<p>If she has loftier goals, many schools offer an RN-BSN completion porgram. It’s 12-18 months + time for any gen eds needed for the bachelor’s. It is something to consider that would save considerable money and still land a student with a BSN, if that is her goal. </p>
<p>I have a child in nursing at a school that is not direct entry. I guess I don’t see why direct entry is so desirable. As long as she gets to be a nurse at the end, does it matter that her first year or two is spent on pre-reqs and gen eds rather than nursing classes? D starts her nursing classes in the fall. It’ll be her second year in college. </p>
<p>Don’t start looking at grad school for a student not even in college yet. It’s too far out.</p>
<p>As a nurse manager in the Northeast at a large teaching hospital , I do a lot of hiring
With the market the way it is for new grads, I would not recommend an associate degree in nursing, she may not get a job
When screening applicants, I will not bring in a nurse for an interview unless she/he has her BSN and have not needed to look to hire a new grad in about 4 years…</p>
<p>That being said, you are looking at way too much debt. Can she begin to take some courses at a CC and then transfer to your state university school of nursing?</p>
<p>To be honest, thank God neither you nor your daughter’ biological father can/will cosign these loans. $35,000 a year in loans is absolutely horrific. The payments would destroy her life.</p>
<p>I know lots of people who go the CC route for nursing. The CC near us you have to do the first year of gen eds and then the nursing program is another 2 years. Then some go on to another school to get their RN. I also know some who get their gen eds at a CC then apply for an RN program, or start at a 4 year school doing gen eds and then transferred into an RN program. I think in most cases you still have to do the gen eds before you start the actual nursing program.</p>
<p>There are several ways to get into nursing. None of them should involve amassing over $160,000 in debt (including interest) and around $1800 a month in loan payments for 10 years. My best friend’s daughter is just about to graduate from a top nursing program - private school but Dad had the money to pay out of pocket - and already has a good job, her dream job in fact. Her starting pay is $22.50 an hour which is less than she and her dad expected after paying $200k for school, but it is a starting job. Can you imagine trying to pay the debt you are talking about on that pay - or even double that pay</p>
<p>She certainly does not have to forget about nursing. Whichever route she takes, please please please make sure she does not take out huge amounts of debt. At her age she will not understand the consequences, so you really need to be the parent here.</p>
If she has a pell of $5550, then her FAFSA EFC must already be 0. Special circumstances usually works by reducing your EFC, and you can’t get lower then 0. So I am not sure that you would be any better of after an appeal.</p>
<p>It seems that you and your DD cannot afford to go to Seton Hall unless they come up with more money. A $30K gap is a big one to have. It appears as though you have just come out of a rough stretch in terms of jobs and money yourself. In addition to looking at what has to be paid,in terms of how much has to be borrowed, also look at how much has to be paid in the future and how long that is going to take, WIth a zero EFC, it doesn’t look like you will be able to help your DD out very much in repayment.</p>
<p>Do look at local and community options and start putting away what you can and get your credit is shape for when she can transfer to a full program. Once she has “earned her stripes” by doing well in the first two years of college, it is less risky to borrow and pay for her to complete her program. It’s all unproven ground right now and I have seen families break the bank and borrow to the hilt only to have it not work out that first year and be left holding a ton of debt.</p>
<p>As a nurse, who actually does the hiring, do you think my D would be better off having a BSN or will new grads need to continue on to become a Nurse Practitioner in order to get a job after school? When you hire new grads do you look at the school they attended? Will that affect whether she gets hired right away? I am swaying her to go to a CC for two years and transfer to a four year program but how will she know what pre-nursing classes to take in order to get into a good four year nursing school.
This is all so complicated!</p>
<p>I’m a parent who has just been accepted into the nursing program at my CC after a year of taking pre-reqs and co-reqs. The school recommends having as light a load as possible during the Nursing program. </p>
<pre><code>I plan on getting the BSN afterwards through the local U when I’m done. The RN-BSN program is 4 semesters. The CC option is less than half the cost, and has a higher NCLEX 1st time pass rate.
If you decide to go the CC route, look to see what classes she needs for both the CC and for a future BSN program. ( I took a lower level math class for the CC, when I could have saved time and money doing a higher level math required for the BSN.) You may want her to start this summer, to give her a leg up in the application process. At mine, nursing apps are due in March for the following year. Entrance into my CC program is competitive with a 25% acceptance rate.
The CC uses a point system where 113 is the perfect score. 86.75 was the minimum needed to be accepted into the program. Here is the scoring system: GPA x 10 + 1/2 TEAS score + co-rereqs points. A&P I & II, Microbiology, and Nutrition are each worth two points. English, math, humanities, & psych. I & II are each worth 1 point.
</code></pre>
<p>The TEAS test can be taken as many times as you like, but you have to wait 6 months to retest so plan time to re-take, if necessary.</p>
<p>MSN programs will not accept someone with an RN license, so getting a 4-year degree in something else is pointless unless she gets an RN first.</p>
<p>I also recommend a CC for pre-nursing classes and then have her apply to several four-year universities and colleges with nursing programs after she finishes those. One of the best ways she could do this is to select a CC with an ADN program, and complete the associate’s degree in nursing + RN license. Then she can apply to a BSN program, and while she’s doing that, she can work part-time as an RN. She could apply to traditional BSN programs or to an RN-BSN completion program. I do not recommend stopping at the ADN; my mother is also a nurse and she says most hospitals are phasing out the ADN role and are doing most of their RN hiring at the BSN level and higher.</p>
<p>Noting that you are in NYC, I googled community college nursing programs there. I looked at Queens CC. They have an RN program, a DUAL/Joint program with Hunter College as well as transfer agreements with about 10 nearby four year colleges, including NYU. I’m sure other CCs will have something similar. Her earnings will be the same wherever she earns the BSN, so 150,000 dollar in loans is detrimental to her future happiness.</p>
<p>Remember wherever she goes, nursing is very competitive. Balance the hard or time consuming classes with easier classes to keep the GPA up. Science classes with labs are different from those in H.S. They are 2 separate classes, with different professors, different work and deadlines, all for one shared grade. They require a lot of study time. One lab science a semester was enough for me.</p>
<p>^^What she said. My employer offers a BSN (and yes, that’s the program D is now in). It is, without a doubt, one of the hardest majors on campus and it is THE most time consuming major. Who else has an 8 hour a week lab - and that’s just for one class! Most of the kids in it do try to lighten the load by taking some of their gen eds and non-nursing classes over the summer at the cc. </p>
<p>Our highest board pass rate belongs to the hospital school. It’s an ADN program (college of health sciences - they have nursing and few other programs). And yes, they will hire their own graduates, obviously.</p>
<p>In response to the question about becoming an NP. I hire NPs as well. I feel strongly that the best NPs have obtained their BSN, worked as a registered nurse for a couple of years and then gone on to get the MSN /NP. I only hired one NP that went into a direct entry MSN program ( Mass General Hospital’s program) but once she graduated from MGH she had worked as an RN for a few years before she was able to get an NP position. The NP role is very different than that of the RN…there are some commonalities but they really are different. But all NPs must have strong basic nursing assessment and planning skills</p>
<p>The job market in my hospital for NPs is rough. NPs earn about the same amount as junior attending MDs and we actually just laid off some NPs and hired MDs (they were cheaper)…not my decision, just reporting</p>
<p>It sounds like you’re d received pell because you and you’re spouse were unemployed, but now both are employed. That means less aid next year. </p>
<p>The amount of loans suggested is ridiculous and not needed. She can do the cc route and then get her bachelors in business. Our take a gap year and apply to more realistic schools. In the meantime she can’t take classes.</p>
<p>Does she have the stats for merit elsewhere</p>
<p>Yes, a number of AA RN’s get their Bachelors in something else…like business or whatever. That’s typically enough to be able to move into management.</p>
<p>What yankeebelle suggested is a vey good way to go. Im an RN and an adjunct professor at local CC that has a highly ranked ADN program. Many employers are still highering ADN’s, but the goal should still be to get your BSN. I also work at a community hospital where they have tuition reimbursement, as most hospital employers do, and many ADN RNs are using that money to get their BSN as wll as their Masters. It s not recommended to get your Bachelors in something else other than Nursing. Most promotions or moving up the career ladder require a BSN and if you want to teach, get your NP or your Masters in Nursing, it needs to be a BSN.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what the appeal is to go directly in a degree program. I’m assuming your D wants an education, not just a nursing degree. It sounds like she’s concerned that she won’t make it into a nursing program that is not a direct admit? </p>
<p>I do recommend a BSN for career opportunities. I would not take on that kind of debt for Seton Hall, but I would broaden my search for on-direct admits. </p>
<p>No, a NP will not be an entry level degree for nursing. But look for the DNP (Doctor of Nursing Practice) to be an entry level degree for Nurse Practitioners in the near future.</p>
<p>I have to add a warning for accelerated second degree programs. They are undergrad degrees, so students have VERY limited financial aid options. I was the advisor to the College of Nursing at the U where I worked, and I dealt with a lot of students who had no clue where they were going to get money to pay for school … even though the school had been upfront with them about limited aid options.</p>
<p>No grants at the vast majority of schools for 2nd UG degree students - no Pell, SEOG, and usually no institutional aid. Loans are limited to year-in-school … so $7500/year if still dependent (having a 1st degree is not what makes an under-24 student independent - only being in a GRAD program does). The parent can get a PLUS in this situation. For independent students, they can get $12,500/year … but no PLUS is available for these students, as they are not dependent & not grad.</p>
<p>I just want to throw that out there, because it is very important for students to understand this.</p>
<p>I agree with Yankee Bell that Op’s daughter should have applied to CUNY as an academic safety because almost every single CUNY CC program has a nursing program where once student completed AA, she could have transferred to hunter or another 4 year program within the SUNY/CUNY system.</p>
<p>If student wanted to have the “go away to college experience” she could have applied to SUNY (4 colleges on a fee waiver) which with full tap, full pell a stafford loan a little work on the student part and a little stretch on the parent’s part could be a financially feasible option.</p>
<p>Depending on her grades/sat scores, if she were to be considered academically/economically disadvantaged she may have even been eligible through HEOP at some schools in NYS (NYU). Did she consider applying for some programs through the CSTEP program.</p>
<p>What kind of advice was she given by her GC?</p>
<p>The most affordable option (for a BSN) would be for her to go to a CC and then transfer to a non-direct entry nursing program for the final two years. If you go in-state, your CC and your in-state schools may even coordinate what the required classes are. For example, when we looked at Towson U, they gave us a sheet listing what their prerequisite classes were (equivalently) at all the Maryland CCs. </p>
<p>Also, every college will list somewhere on their web site for the nursing program what their prerequisite classes are. Look at affordable schools NOW so she can start planning. </p>
<p>Typically, when applying for those final two years, applicants will be chosen mainly by their GPA. Have her make sure hers is good! Critical classes include Anatomy and Physiology and Chemistry. If she’s unsure of those subjects, perhaps she could start by taking just one of those classes over the summer so she can focus on it. </p>
<p>I agree that the NP degree is moving towards becoming a doctoral degree so she should focus on just getting her BSN for now, as affordably as she can. Getting that DNP degree later may be another difficult financial decision. </p>
<p>You may want to look at this thread of direct-entry schools - if a school is not on the list, then it is not direct-entry:</p>
<p>Beware of schools that have lower pass rates, and also schools that have very high pass rates. They may be excellent schools, and/or they may be weeding students out in some fashion so it is worth asking to find out.</p>