<p>The HS DD and DS are atending is one of the best public HS in the country - mostly based on AP taken/passed. We spent a lot more money to get into a very small house in the district, attracted by the school's ranking.</p>
<p>However, as we have been about a year now, we found out there are things of concerns. Both DD and DS used to participate in many after class academic activies when they are in their old HS which ranks outside of top 1000. The old HS assigns teachers to lead and train students so DD got many state level awards.</p>
<p>The current HS lets seniors taking the lead on many of these activities. Since this is their last semester before going to college, the seniors really may be not longer active/care about these things any more.</p>
<p>For example, the regional (25 HS) science olympia took place yesterday. The team and subjects were only announced by last Thursday. Everyone had only two days to prepare. My DD's got one gold medel, a silver and some others. But the HS team is not where near the top so none of the student moves to next round. </p>
<p>Should we talk to QC or principal about our concerns?</p>
<p>I think it's worth taking it up as a general issue rather than one that involves your kids.</p>
<p>You could say that the various teams would have a better chance of excelling if the coaches took a more active role than they do now, since many seniors are either too busy to take the lead or are suffering from senioritis. If teams do well, it redounds to the credit of the whole school, so it is something that the principal and the coaches should consider.</p>
<p>Another one of these is the Math league. Only thing the HS does was to give the test and then tell kids how many they did right. The overall school score are at lower end of the county, let alone the state.</p>
<p>I think it would be a good idea to follow your kids' lead on this. If they don't want it brought up, why not let it be? </p>
<p>Sometimes, we parents have to pick our battles carefully and only make a fuss about things that are really, really important. Perhaps this is not one of those things.</p>
<p>I don't think a fuss should be made. But for the sake of other students, it would be worth bringing it up, especially if the school is a competitive one. </p>
<p>Our school, which happens not to be competitive, does not seem to slack off when it comes to ECs. The co-captains of the teams tend to be seniors and they remain involved throughout, as do the coaches. The latter vary in terms of their involvement, but it has to do with personalities more than anything else.</p>
<p>An alternative would be for the kids to take the leads in preparing for competitions.</p>
<p>Well. DD is doing something about it - i.e. running for presidents/leaders for several clubs in senior year. But her chance at top universities could be ruined. The schools will see that she was extrtemely active, wining a National award and several state awards in 10th grade. Then suddenly, all that stopped and only a couple of awards in 11th grade. We want to ask the QC specifically putting the situation in the recommendation letter. In other words, we will be asking QC to say it is school's fault for not providing the oragization and support a school should.</p>
<p>Beside, if the school continue to act like this, the academic reputation could be destroyed so our home value going down too. </p>
<p>Letting seniors run their own programs are fine with me. However, I think the school should provide structure and coaching. Ultimately, it is school's responsibility nor the seniors to ensure academic activities run well.</p>
<p>First, the schools does not have a responsibility to run extra-curricular activities; many schools do not have math teams. In fact, ours dies regularly for lack of student interest and/or coach inertia.<br>
Second. A school's reputation is enhanced if its students shine in state and national competitions, but it is not ruined if they do not.<br>
Third, a student's chances at getting into top schools is not ruined.<br>
Example, S's school's Science Team regularly gets trounced at the state level by suburban powerhouses. But all the Science Team's co-captains (save one) in the past few years have gotten into Harvard, MIT or Yale. </p>
<p>So, while I'm sympathetic about ensuring that teams stay dynamic, let's not get hyperbolic.</p>
<p>laserbrother- perhaps this is a chance for your kids to have a life outside of school activities. There are many other things they could do if the academic extra-curriculars are lacking. I doubt their college chances will be ruined or your home value tanked.</p>
<p>The old HS assigns teachers to lead and train students so DD got many state level awards.</p>
<p>So was that part of their union contract?
Most schools, teachers may choose to sponsor a club, but they aren't required to.</p>
<p>I have the general impression that while you seem to be generally satisfied with their original high school, you were drawn by the numbers of APs offered at the current high school- but hadn't really checked out other details.</p>
<p>Moving is a huge deal & I appreciate your efforts to find your kids the best place, but since the current school in retrospect now seems to be lacking in comparision with the previous school....</p>
<p>I also would let your kids take the lead- .
What are the other parents concerns? Email the PTA, and attend meetings, I bet the school could use parents support.</p>
<p>The fact that seniors suffer from seniorits and teams don't do as well in competition is rampant overall. (Topic of conversation among coaches all the time - we try to discourage the not so competetive seniors from going on) The problem occurs when these kids have given their time all these years, and have earned a spot on the team. Making them do something when their college choices are already done is an uphill battle, to say the least. Unless the most motivated and competetive students are on the teams, there is little anyone can do about it. In fact, D earned huge statewide awards in her junior and senior year, and senior year was even better, however, her team let her down, and even tho she scored 1st overall, her team did not advance. But she did both years while studying for school, doing homework, studying for the competitions, doing her EC's, and studying for AP's because guess when the competition finals all were? I can't believe she did it, but she is competetive, and wanted to; others who aren't will set aside the awards because they mean little once college applications are in and/or decisions are made. How the school can counter this is beyond me. You are dealing with a different culture, as well. I see it all the time - some of the schools which we think won't do well, have a group of very interested kids who outperform their expectations, because they are driven to get out of their situation, and are pushed by their teachers (perhaps because they are so happy to have those really interested kids) telling them that they need to do well in order to get scholarships, etc. It's their way out. In your case, these kids are already set. Less drive. (Now, don't start yelling about this - I didn't say that this is true of ALL students - just overall experience as a teacher and academic coach, and yes, there are many exceptions.) What do you want the school to do? Ban seniors from competition? Have the teaches evaluate who may or may not be driven the next year? What if they guess incorrectly? Do they boot the kid off and try to replace them in the eleventh hour? How about paying teachers more to work with the teams (or pay them something)? Quite frankly, we weren't doing so well in our earlier years until we found out that the schools that were succeeding had classes offered in the competition under the title of Independent Study. Kids found it too difficult to do all their regular work and EC's and add this stuff on top of it. Now, what they have to study is the homework for one of their classes. Our Decatholon and Octathlon teams went on to state for the first time this year, because of this. If you want to approach the district, perhaps you could find out what other schools do this, their results, and propose it. That way, you are not there selfishly, on behalf of your D, but it can be made to look as tho you want the district to look and do better. This is a perennial problem, and this has solved the problem for us. Oh, yes, the classes are ranked Honors, because these kids don't want their GPA's affected. There are regular lesson plans, tests, etc., and they get grades just as they would in any other class. The kids like it and sign up, and it looks good for college apps in that they are taking ind study classes in a subject they love.</p>
<p>On further thinking, I am surprised at the Olympiad issue.</p>
<p>My S was nominated by his AP-Chem teacher to take part in the qualifying regional exam for the Olympiad, along with two other students. It was based on class performance, not on membership in Science Team (although all were members). S then qualified to take part in the National Olympiad. It had nothing to do with teams. The teacher did zip to prepare the students either before the regional exam of the Olympiad. She just selected the students and helped them fill the papers.<br>
For math, any student can take AMC/AIME as long as the school is willing to administer the test; qualified students then go on to participate in USAMO and eventually in IMO. Again, it has nothing to do with team membership.</p>
<p>I think EK hit the nail on the head. A high school ranking based on APs offered/taken/passed (is that the Newsweek magazine ranking?) doesn't tell you (or college admissions committees) much except that there's a focus on APs. Your previous school was probably just fine in that regard and did a terrific job with academic ECs to boot. The move might have been a mistake you'll just have to live with. You can voice your concerns to the principal about inadequate support for these ECs, but it may not do any good. </p>
<p>It may be a union thing, as EK says, that teachers can't be assigned to these EC mentorships. It may be that it costs money the school doesn't want to spend to pay teachers to be mentors/coaches to the EC activity. At some schools, so much money goes to athletics that many other activities have to run essentially on a totally volunteer basis and understandably, only a teacher with a passionate interest will take on the extra work involved in guiding a math or science olympiad team or an academic decathlon team. One possible solution is to find a parent volunteer willing to step in and organize, instruct, and coach these academic teams, but finding that volunteer is rare also. Some schools treat these activities, and others like MUN, as classes rather than ECs, which helps the students and allows the school to pay the teacher/coach. But that decision would probably have to be made at the school board level.</p>
<p>This form of "senioritis" is a big problem at our school with ECs. Most officers for clubs like NHS and Student Government are seniors, and after the first few months of school go by, and all the apps are done and sent in, NOTHING is done in these organizations.<br>
Last year my son (a junior) was a service chair for NHS. He set up several weekend service events, and no one came (OK, 4 or 5 people- not enough to get the work done). None of the senior officers ever helped. None of the seniors came. This year, as a senior, his attitude is "why bother- no one came to help when I was trying to get something done." It's perpetuating.</p>
<p>Same thing happens with our county Youth Leadership organization, which is a very competitive and selective organization to get into. Our school had about 5 seniors go, which was quite an over-representation compared to other high schools, and by December they all had either dropped out entirely or just quit going to meetings (but you can believe it was right up there center and bold on their college apps). Meanwhile, there are so many other younger students out there who want to be involved but didn't make the cut, who would have participated.</p>
<p>I second Marite's suggestion that in your situation it would be better for the kids to look into the individual competitions. Lots of schools in the US do not care much about the academic ECs, and those that care usually have a group of enthusiastic teachers who are the main driving force. I do not think you can do much here. You might have known in advance that your old school beats the new school in the Science Olympiad department (after all, that was how your DD got to go to the State finals). And the Math League does not mean much, anyway. If your kids will participate in the competitions Marite listed (and also Physics, Bio, Linguistics olympiads, USACO, USAMTS, language competitions and essay competitions), they will not depend on their teammates (or on the way their school runs the things).</p>
<p>I do not think that your guidance counselor will have to write anything about the "bad" EC preparation in the school. First of all, a school is not supposed to provide such a preparation; and secondly, the gc has no way to know what was the preparation in your previous school. If you really, really feel that the matter should be addressed during the admission process, I guess your DD will have to mention that in her own essays somehow.</p>
<p>Do not worry about your house, the Newsweek ratings (and maybe sports) are what will attract people. Nobody cares about the competitions (in fact, you yourself did not check them out before moving to the new school district, am I right?)</p>
<p>I believe she's talking about the Science Olympiad competition. This is a team competition where teams of students build engineering events, such as robots, musical instruments, trebuchets, etc., and testing events, where 2 students from each school take exams on science subjects such as ecology, stars, rocks, chemistry, etc. Our coach is not involved at all except to choose the team and secure the money needed to help offset the cost of the engineering events, and for transportation and rooms for the team at the state competition. My boys have been on their teams for a total of 9 years (7-12 for both). Parents are involved in the transportation, because in addition to getting the team to the competition, it takes a couple of vans to take the engineering projects, the boxes of goggles and other stuff needed. The seniors always take the lead and work with the younger students. </p>
<p>At our high performing public school, at least in the activities in which my boys have particpated, these activities are "sponsored" by teachers, but the students are really in charge. Our teachers are each required to sponsor one club or activity, with no extra pay.</p>
<p>Many of the students at our school find their own ways to excell, and don't expect the school to provide these activities, or if they are provided, don't expect the teachers to lead the way.</p>
<p>"But her chance at top universities could be ruined."</p>
<p>This is the most shocking line in this thread. </p>
<p>Laserbrother, I appreciate your desire for your children to get into the best universities, but you need a better idea of how the admissions at elite universities work. Do you really think that all those accepted into HYPS and the like all won state honors for math and science? Yes, all the acceptees excelled at something, but it's usually initiative and leadership that attracts the attention of adcoms in addition to academic excellence. If your GC writes in your daughter's application that she failed to do well at the Math Olympiad because she wasn't adequately prepared by the teachers, the adcoms will quickly put her in the rejection pile. <em>She</em> is the one who is supposed to take the initiative to study, not because she wants top honors for her college apps but because she loves math. If she was worried about it, she should have approached the senior in charge or, failing that, a teacher. I suspect that both your DS and DD know this at a deeper level, one reason they don't want you to talk to the hs about this.</p>
<p>When it comes down to it, it will be your children, and not the high school, that will determine where they go.</p>
<p>My daughter attended school in three different school systems in the same state. Each was run differently. Laserbrother, You actually moved from one state to another and assume that the everything is going to be the same or better but each state and school district fund their school systems differently. At my kids HS, there is an advisor for each activity but the amount given is a pittance for most things. Something like $3,000 is spent for the High School drama teacher who probably spends 20 - 40 hours a week for three months working with the kids. I think our Robotics coach made less then that. I would not push this issue unless you know more about it. Do you know how much the advisors are getting for helping out? Do you give your time? Our Robotics team was started just a few years ago by students and parents and most of the financial backing and some expertise was the parents initiative, not any teacher. You might consider how you, personally can help - it might even be fun. There is a lot more to an education then how well one places in an event.</p>
<p>You have already moved your family so that your kids could go to a "ranked" high school. That ranking, you are learning, may not be a good measure of how well the school will fill your kids' needs. If, in fact, it is the Newsweek ranking, you can read many critiques of the validity of that whole thing.</p>
<p>Now, you are worried that your kids' chances at a highly "ranked" college/university are diminished. My suggestion is to put less stock in the rankings. And more in the kind of investigation of what the experience at a given school is really going to be like. Your kids will have many options at many great schools if they choose wisely.</p>
<p>Rankings are eminently subject to manipulation. We all (or many of us) refer to them. Guilty as charged, personally. But we do so at our own peril. Their one true value is to sell magazines. Beyond that, they cause more problems than they are worth, imo.</p>